[DGD] using NURBS to generate virtual landscapes

[Shentino]

What I might wind up doing in the 24th century is have my explorable areas,
at least, the fixed parts (like rock, soil, and river) compiled rather than
interpreted.

Do the nurb thing, then do "lscomp that_nurb" and the landscape compiler
would go to work generating

A)  the polygons for a graphical client
B) any simplified and easily-digestible stuff the text interface would need
to calculate the appropriate text...such as the locations of any peaks,
valleys, steep spots

so the nurbs, while used to build, wouldn't actually be visible to anyone
but the builders.  I guess you could say the nurb information would be to a
source file what the polygon and textIF biscuits would be to a program.

I'm still thinking about this.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Noah Gibbs <noah_gibbs at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>  Fair enough.  But I'll point out that you're going to need to write code
> to reasonably textually describe NURBS, which is very, very hard and very
> time- and CPU-intensive.  Or you'll have to restrict NURBS use to areas that
> aren't described in text.
>
> --- On Tue, 3/17/09, Shentino <shentino at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Shentino <shentino at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [DGD] using NURBS to generate virtual landscapes
> > To: "All about Dworkin's Game Driver" <dgd at dworkin.nl>
> > Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 1:22 PM
> > Perhaps not yet, but also consider that text might not be
> > the only way to
> > describe things.
> >
> > Skotos made a good analogy about a text interface and a
> > quake interface
> > connecting to the same virtual world.  And a quake
> > interface would
> > definitely need some geometry info just to know where to
> > draw the polygons.
> >
> > Of course, if I restrict myself to text, NURBS are indeed
> > overkill.
> > However, I'm feeling a bit ambitious and I'd rather
> > not build in an
> > infrastructure now that would lock out such an improvement
> > later as being
> > "banned because it breaks too much"
> >
> > I can see visions of a gorgeous navigable landscape being
> > generated for the
> > benefit of any graphical users.  Some math to determine
> > slopes and normals
> > could conceivably be translated, possibly with fuzzy logic,
> > into grades of
> > steepness, and whatnot for textual users.
> >
> > I actually happen to be a wizard on a mud that has been
> > running for 10 years
> > straight, and try as I may, there are many enhancements
> > that are banned
> > simply because they break too much stuff.  It is very
> > annoying to see
> > historical and likely rusty code be mandated as being
> > sacred canon simply
> > because it was written first.  Incidentally, this culture
> > also keeps it from
> > switching to DGD, a notion that nearly got me de-wizzed for
> > being a heretic.
> > :P
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Noah Gibbs
> > <noah_gibbs at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >  In general, this kind of thing winds up being a lot,
> > LOT more than you
> > > need for geometric consistency.  The problem is that
> > you need to usefully
> > > generate text descriptions of the hillsides and
> > whatnot, and NURBS give you
> > > *way* too much information in a form that's hard
> > to analyze.  You're usually
> > > better off using something simpler, like simple
> > grid-based subdivision
> > > (remember plasma fractals?) that's easier to
> > generate a description for.
> >
> >
> > What's a plasma fractal?
> >
> > >
> > >  In other words, first figure out how your MUD will
> > describe this stuff,
> > > and then come up with a model that will very
> > conveniently generate that
> > > description.  NURBS are not that model.
> > >
> > > --- On Tue, 3/17/09, Shentino
> > <shentino at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: Shentino <shentino at gmail.com>
> > > > Subject: [DGD] using NURBS to generate virtual
> > landscapes
> > > > To: "All about Dworkin's Game
> > Driver" <dgd at dworkin.nl>
> > > > Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 12:22 PM
> > > > Beckoning to me from the past, I hear NURBS, used
> > in Rhino
> > > > to generate 3D
> > > > models.
> > > >
> > > > It just occured to me that a super fancy mud
> > might use them
> > > > to generate
> > > > hills and mountains and whatnot.
> > > >
> > > > First, any technical aspects to worry about
> > besides NURBS
> > > > itself (which I
> > > > still have to grok).
> > > >
> > > > Second, does anyone have/has anyone had any
> > experience in
> > > > this sort of thing
> > > > and/or possible insights?
> > > >
> > > > It's still a bit hazy, but I would like to be
> > able to
> > > > write a geometrically
> > > > consistent game, possibly on top of kotaka or
> > phantasmal.
> > > > Having NURBS
> > > > generate geometry and whatnot would be really
> > cool for
> > > > modelling landscapes
> > > > without the "curse of a million polys"
> > > >
> > > > Geometric consistency would be to satisfy any
> > > > propeller-headed guys who
> > > > would be clever enough to use stuff like
> > triangulation and
> > > > whatnot to find
> > > > treasures, monsters, or fallen allies.
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