[DGD] Where did all the players go?

[Raymond Jennings]

Dammit dworkin you beat me!

I was just about to quote your previous post on the ML about this
which Noah was kind enough to put on the phantasmal siteDate: Mon, 24
Apr 2000 17:20:13 +0200 (CEST)
From: "Felix A. Croes"
To: DGD Mailing List
Subject: Re: [DGD]Hello, think you could answer a few questiosn for me? :)

Stephen Schmidt wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, Par Winzell wrote:
> > BladeDarkmour writes:
> > > Aye, [state saving]'s one of the features of DGD that caught my
> > > eye.. Tis a requirement, and I prefer not to have to
code support for
> > > it myself.
>
> > You couldn't.
>
> Actually, even under MudOS, you can, because of the save_object()
> feature. The cost is that you can't use clones anymore; each object
> needs to have its own save file, so it has to have its own code
> file. (And, in fact, there's ways around that too, though not
> good ones.) You have to do some additional work to preserve
> environment information, and so forth, but it's doable.
>
> But it's way too hard when DGD is available with state saves
> as a driver feature.

Mimicing DGD's persistence (or, for that matter, any other persistent
mud server's persistence; it is only MudOS people who define the term
so sloppily) is not just hard in MudOS, it really is impossible.

The limitations you mention are limitations of current implementations
in the Nightmare and Lima mudlibs.  These are tradeoffs for simplicity
and have little to do with actual MudOS limitations.  There are many
more, including: datastructures shared between objects are not saved
as shared, self-referential datastructures cannot be saved at all,
neither can object references, etc.

The show-stopper with regard to persistence in MudOS is that it is
impossible to query the full state of any given object from LPC.

Regards,
Dworkin

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 1:27 AM, Felix A. Croes <felix at dworkin.nl> wrote:
> Blain <blain20 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Full persistence can be achieved using save files.
>
> Save files don't save private variables, objects, or callouts.
>
> Full persistence: you are in a fight and the next hit will determine the
> outcome.  If the state of the game can be saved and restored at this
> point without the player noticing, then you have full persistence.
>
> Regards,
> Felix Croes
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