[MUD-Dev] Spellcaster, or Waving Hands

[Michael Hohensee]

clawrenc at cup.hp.com wrote:
> 
> In <33F33748.78AD42AC at sparta.mainstream.net>, on 08/14/97
>    at 09:54 AM, Michael Hohensee <michael at sparta.mainstream.net> said:
> 
> >clawrenc at cup.hp.com wrote:
> 
> >> In <33E9E729.41049A12 at sparta.mainstream.net>, on 08/07/97
> >>    at 08:42 AM, Michael Hohensee <michael at sparta.mainstream.net> said:
> 
> >> >clawrenc at cup.hp.com wrote:
> 
> >> >>
> >> >>                       WAVING HANDS
> >> >>                (also known as: SPELLCASTER)
> >> >>                     Richard Bartle
> >>
> ...
> >> Precisely.  I suspect taht I'll steal it whole coth and then invest a
> >> terrible amount of time trying to extend it to the various neat things
> >> I also do (will power fights etc), as well as some sort of generic
> >> magic/spell extensions:
> ...
> >One could have the client program display a list of known finishes
> >for the opponent's spell too.
> 
> This is precisely what I'd expect, along with a list of possible
> extensions of the current user's state.
>
> >Of course, if you're inexperienced,
> >there might be a time lag between sight of gestures and
> >understanding.  Perhaps one can make this time lag player defined, by
> >having the client be able to "test" the player's abilities.  The
> >client could send over a sequence of gestures, and the time it takes
> >the player to realize what spell it is becomes the time it takes the
> >client to tell the player what spell is being cast in the future.
> 
> I dislike this as random net lag variations could play havoc with even
> brilliantly cast spells.  Additionally the original Waving Hands was
> implicitly round based. which I feel also gave it much of its power as
> a game system.  Moving to time rated system would seem to lose much of
> that.

Well, you can't have players take turns making gestures at each other.
For one thing, who wants to have to wait for the other guy to finish
waving his hands?  Suppose the other guys waves hist way half-way thru a
spell and then decides to hit you with a rock?  You aren't allowed to
finish the spell on your own?  Secondly, network lag could easily slow
things down to the point where they become uninteresting.  What we want
is a fast-paced (one keystroke per gesture, thanks to the client),
cutthroat magic duel.  Not some tidy little game of chess. :)

You are probably right about the deliberate time delay though, since
network delays are bad enough.
 
> >Of course, one would need a graphical mouse interface, for this to be
> >a fair test.
> 
> Yup.
> 
> >> >However, it seems to me, that to fight out one of these combats with
> >> >any amount of speed or efficiency, a client program would be
> >> >required.
> >>
> >> Much as I hate cients for telnet MUD play, I've come to think taht
> >> *not* having a client for any decently advanced game is a recipe for
> >> disaster.
> 
> Note:
> 
>   "Decenty advanced game" != Any MUD I know of currently in existance.
>   "Decenty advanced game" == The sorts of games we discuss here.

*rofl*  

We are MUD coding ----+++++== G O D S ==+++++---- !!!!!  
Bow down, Ye Stock-Code-Running Mortals, and GROVEL before the MIGHT and
POWER of the CODER GODS!  

*rototfl*
:)
 
> >A better idea would be to introduce the effect of "timing" to
> >spellcasting.  Sure, you can gesture through the spell real fast, but
> >is that really enough time for the magical forces to accumulate and
> >be shaped?  Of course not!
> 
> This would seem to depend on your magic model.  If you have externally
> generated forces which need time to fulfill, then yes.  If the forces
> are entirely internal/resource based (ie my model), then no.

Aw heck, you can invent any story you like to justify the system.  (You
can even say, "it just is!")  The main idea is to introduce a way for
the actual player's *skill* to influence his character, rather than you
advance int power by X amount per spells cast...
 
> >Likewise, going too slowly allows some
> >energy to escape...  The client can oversee how much time there is
> >between keystrokes, and pass this information to the server.  (or
> >just possibly tell the server how much energy the spell is supposed
> >to have).
> 
> Hurm.  If the timing were bound to the client this would work.  If it
> were bound to the server it would seem woefully susceptible to net lag
> variations.

Of course.  As I said, the client oversees the timing. :)
 
--
Michael Hohensee       michael at sparta.mainstream.net
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/9025/
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