Users want sexy muds, not rape... (Re: [MUD-Dev] Re:)

[Ola Fosheim Grøstad <olag@ifi.uio.no>]

>[Caliban:]
>> No one ever dreams of being a rape victim.
>
>Haven't commented up until now, but I had to say it: it is a fairly
>well documented fact (if you consider 'well documented' being numerous
>anonymous surveys) that rape is one of the most popular women's fantasies.

An obviously immature troll, but...

I think you would do yourself a favor by at least providing a reference
to a scientific peer-reviewed journal when you use a term like
"documented fact" and a rating like "most popular".  Besides the main
difference is that in a fantasy, the victim is in control, but if the
victim is in control, then it cannot be rape! If the woman really wants
to have sex then it isn't really rape.  Is it?  So it is essentially 
impossible to have fantasies about rape, simply because you wouldn't
have fantasies about something you really dont wan't?   You can have 
nightmares about rape.  Rape is a psychological thing, not a physical one,
although it is established through physical means. What you are talking 
about is most likely giving up control in an erotic and exotic situation,
yes sure, many women probably have fantasies like that.  I bet even
you've had fantasies like that, if not, you gotta be a very boring
person.  Almost all women I've met in MUDs do not want erotic fantasies 
unless they get to know you first, many men are different in that respect.

Anyway, it is well documented that rape is not so much about sex than
control. It has also been shown that rapists often are victims themselves.

Some factors that increase the probability for repeated rape:
- the rapist has experiences with women that makes him look at them as
  alien beings.
- the rapist views sex as something dangerous, thus something that can be
  used as a weapon.
- the society tries to hide sex, or make it "dangerous". (There is more rape
  relative to the population size in Ireland and GB than in say Scandinavian
  countries).

It is common among rapers to feel good during the act, but feel like shit
afterwards. Running away, thinking suicidal thoughts, turning themselves in.
Most rapists can get their worldview corrected through therapy.

Most of what I write here is based on research and a published (serious
noncommercial) interview with a therapist that works with rapists
professionally.

I'm not going to take anyone claiming that a multiuser environment possibly
can be "just a game" seriously.  Anyone thinking that a real psychological 
trauma cannot be created in a MUD is off beat with reality.  I think the
term "real life", implying MUDs being un-real is extremely misleading.
A better term would be "conventional life"...  My experience shows me that
immature and insecure (nonadmitting) online people often are afraid of being
classified as antisocial due to their online activity, and hence stress that
they have a "real life", and likewise stress that "it is only a game". BUT,
what most users claim as a main motivation for using MUDs is communication
with other people, and that is very very REAL.  The time you have to spend
to get back your hitpoints after being PKilled is also very very REAL.

Playerkilling is comparable to rape, in terms of loosing control over your
own self (many users thinks of their avatar as a representation of their
own self.)  But it is not comparable in terms of discrimination, number
of living victims, common sexist attitudes etc.  Although I as a norwegian
are surprised by the unhealthy tendency of turning violence, murder and
rape in the US entertainment industry (and my own country's news
industry), I still think the threat of being severly punished is helpfull
in many systems.  Although attacking as a mob often isn't supported as well
as it ought to be, hence experienced users gets too much of an advantage.
(I guess one solution would be to let experienced (older) users heal more
slowly, or not at all)

Loosing control over your own self is creating a trauma even in virtual
worlds.  A quick look at the whining about unfair imps etc in r.g.m.*
over the past few years, or monitoring the broadcast channels (shout)
in many MUDs should convince anyone that the psychological impact is very
real.

However, implementing rape would be impossible as the measure is
psychological.  The closest you can get to rape in a MUD is to be
harassed by unblockable tells over a long period of time, withouth being
able to talk to other people.  Rape is about loosing control over
your most personal resource, hence you may get the feeling that you can
loose anything, that nothing is safe.  That is impossible in a MUD.
So essentially you can implement something and call it "rape" and
stir up rapevictims, but it won't have anything to do with rape, it will
only hint at a wish of raping or an acceptance of raping.  On the other
hand two people may carry out a rape fantasy, but as they both would
agree on this, this wouldn't have anything to do with rape either.
Lovers tie eachother up in bed, strangle eachother etc etc, but that
certainly isn't rape.  

Personally I'm not so concerned about the rapevictims and their families
as I am about the effect that hardcore pornographic magazines and other 
sexist entertainment has on young men who has had bad experiences with
women and who are not at ease with their own sexuality.  If you know your
users, go ahead do rape-commands, if not, don't.  You may actually push
a disturbed soul (God knows MUDs have more than their share) in the
wrong direction.

I think the whole discussion is rather sad.  Why don't we discuss how
to make MUDs sexually interesting to women instead?  That's far more
interesting.  My experience so far is that MUDs give mature women
(23-25 years and up, the older the better) a secure playground for
erotic fantasies, and it seems to be easier to get them into it in
such worlds than in other places.  I attribute this to several factors,
but the most important one is physical security, the male part can only
go that far.

MUDs should deal with sexually related topics or allow for erotic
fantasies etc, simply because flirt and erotic behaviour is an
important component in communication among adults.

Rape is not dealing with sex.

Ola.