[MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics

[Matt Chatterley]

On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Stephen Zepp wrote:

> >[snip about having an increasing number of jerks in muds]
> >
> >> >I've got one question here.  Both UO and M59 was marketed as
> >> >roleplaying games right.  What's wrong about being a jerk then?  Will
> >> >this tendency translate well to non-roleplaying games?
> >> 
> >> Theoretically, nothing _should_ be wrong with playing a jerk.  The problem
> >> is that, as currently constructed, online rpgs favor the jerks, the
> >> killers, and in general the aggressors, while limiting more severely those
> >> who choose more traditional/edifying roles to play.  In effect, "killing
> >> things" becomes the path of least resistance, and dealing with characters
> >> that have borne the brunt of this becomes a large focus for the game (and
> >> the support organization).
> 
> New to the list, so pardon if I step on any toes or violate any protocols :)
> 
> So why note code it so that the "jerks" pay for being jerks?  If
> shopkeepers, guards, entire kingdoms learn the reputation of "jerks" (
> meaning chaotic killers, etc. ), and _do_ something about it, the "jerk"
> just won't be around.  It's sorta hard to kill newbies when you are hiding
> for your very survival from the Kingdom of Kasgar's elite killing team (
> npc OR pc ).

Ah, well. Remember the difference between *being* a jerk and playing one.
If I wish to play such a character, I can do so, and games will
respond, for example my reputation system will account for many of the
actions a jerk character might undertake.

If I *am* a jerk, the system cannot cope. It cannot react to abusive tells
sent to people, or spam over public lines or in public areas. Nor should
it.

The person playing a jerk is simply exercising their right to play a
different kind of character, and can actually add very positively to the
environment (for instance, a lot of people would call someone who steals
from other players a jerk, even if they are playing a thief; I'd clap,
since they are actually thieving. Unless they stole from me, in which case
I'd attempt to disembowel them), whereas the actual jerk is wrecking
things in an out-of-character fashion for others.
 
> >Rightly so. Roleplaying is a cooperative environment. If somebody deci-
> >des to ruin my fun in the game  because he thinks it is 'in character'
> >then he is definitely not playing the same game as I am. Roleplaying a
> >conflict with an evil character is definitely possible.  You could try
> >to log on to e.g. Elendor mush. This is a tolkien based game and there
> >are players for both the good and the evil side of that story and main
> >part of the game is about the conflicts between those two groups. How-
> >ever  there is a lot of communication going on  to ensure that this is
> >fun for all players. An orc character can not simply walk into Bree to
> >kill every inhabitant. Or if they tried they would be ridiculed by the
> >other players.
> 
> Hmm..I tend to disagree on this point.  Instead of ridicule, use diplomacy,
> then force if required.  Again, if an orc walks in and slaughters Bree, a
> war would start, neh?  Tightly designed reputation and diplomacy code will
> help to 1) not allow a player that is this chaotic to ever get powerful
> enough to actually perform an action like that, and
> 2) if they do, their own "side" will do their damndest to eliminate the
> threat to the current diplomatic status quo.

I don't think an Orc would get into Bree alive, but I suppose its a
functional example to a point. ;) The trouble here is that if you do allow
such things potentially (and I do - a powerful adventurer could decimate a
small rural village relatively easily, or collect an army and jump a
town), if you allow people who are not really game-players the potential
to do it, a jerk can wipe out several players, damage the game, and you
will find in-game punishment ineffective. If they are a proper player,
those punishments ARE effective. Real players do not like to lose
characters, and so on.
 
> Finally, there can always be more opponents than friends for a player like
> this.  Eventually, the combined weight of his enemies will keep him from
> being able to act in such a manner.

Of course the secret does lie in not allowing random jerks to have power
of mass-destruction. Only patient jerks.

[Snip]

Regards,
	-Matt Chatterley
	ICQ: 5580107
"I shall never believe that God plays dice with the world." -Einstein