[MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)

[Ola Fosheim Grøstad <olag@ifi.uio.no>]

JC Lawrence <claw at under.Eng.Sun.COM> wrote:
>On Sat, 27 Dec 1997 15:52:58 PST8PDT stad <Ola> wrote:
>> JC Lawrence <claw at under.Eng.Sun.COM> wrote:
>
>>> Even that to the side, what freedom is abridged or compromised by
>>> the fact of logging?
>
>> Isn't that obvious?  The freedom to act in the moment and focus on
>> whatever seems like a good idea?
>
>Ahh, but logging does not prevent that.  It is merely your
>sensibilities which do.  I'm not about to take responsibility for
>those.

That is a convinient choice of viewpoint.  In my view a good
interactive design will take "human factors" into account.  Even
feelings.  Even irrational feelings. (The above sensitivity is
rational though)

>>> Whether we like it or note we are about to enter an age where the
>>> flow of data is both uncontrollable and uncontrolled.  Govt's and
>>> other such may attempt to delay this change.  They can do nothing
>>> to avert it entirely.  It is, quite literally, inevitable.
>
>> Why?  This is a self-fullfilling prophecy.
>
>Quite.  It will happen for the utterly simple reason that it can
>happen, and there is nothing that can prevent it from happening.

Nonono, it will happen when everyone says it will happen. If
professionals start to say: we will prevent this from happening...

>> You can do quite a lot if you are _aware_ that you are being
>> monitored.  You can avoid having a telephone.  You can avoid buying
>> with cards.  You can browse the web with somebodyelses browser.  I
>> can grow my own food.  Use my own energy powerplant.  Etc.
>
>Yup.  This essentially equates to removing yourself from the rest of
>human society by limiting the points of interaction (IO) with that
>society.  Given a person who has absolutely no interaction or
>dependency on the rest of the world, does he really matter?  Does a
>tree falling in the woods make a sound if nobody hears it?

I never said no interaction. You can have limited interaction.  You
can buy and interact in batches.  Provide as little details about your
actions as possible.  Utilize encryption.

For instance, I guess a programmer could do almost everything external
by email.  Have your computer call up your connection point regularly,
transmit the same amount of encrypted data each time. Etc. Etc.

I don't buy your assertion that the outcome of the current trends is
inevitable.

>How about if the company in question has no data on you, but instead
>used a data collection service to assemble a report on you?  In turn
>the data collection service has no data on you either, but polls and
>collects data from hundreds or thousands of other data services across
>the planet, many in unknown or virtual locations.  Those services in
>turn are often sub-collectors, and occassionally original sources.

Most people want reliable information.  Anyway, introduce laws that
require companies to track their sources.  Make companies that
assemble information about persons responsible.  Etc.

I don't buy your "a priori" prophecy :-) It is possible to limit the
effects.

(Note: storing my personal id code in a computer system requires a
permission from the government, usage is under regulation)

Ola.