[MUD-Dev] A flamewar startingpoint.)

[Ola Fosheim Grøstad <olag@ifi.uio.no>]

Adam Wiggins <nightfall at user2.inficad.com> wrote:
>> 
>> The whole concept of Quake and Tombraider is found in mid-eighties
>> games.
>
>Hmmm, I admit I haven't played a lot of Tomb Raider or Quake, but I
>never saw any real-time 3D environments with real physics, lighting,
>real-time multiplayer games, huge levels with true up-and-down (passing
>underneath on bridges, flying up into dark corners), complex weapons
>(the physics on the grenade launcher), realistic water, QuakeC, or
>the sound effects.

Huh. As almost all 3D games I know of is essentially 2D. I don't
really understand what you are talking about. Quake etc is mostly a 2D
plane.  Anyway, the concept is the same, walk in tunnels, shoot
monsters, pick up keys, swim under water, look for energy/heal, look
for weapons, jump and bounce down shafts, open gate, enter new level
(Talisman). I would even claim that gravity is better exposed in a 2D
sideview game than in a (3D) ground plane game.  Think about Cauldron
for instance, a very bouncy game. (Fun! The bouncing... Not the game.
Wizzball, bouncy, origincal, artistic, fun, great in 2-player mode)

>None of this is purely sparkle - lighting has a huge effect on what
>you can and can't see.

Not really, I just crank up the controls on my monitor. :) Anyway, the
concept is old.  Invisible monsters (flicking or whatever) is a
standard arcade feature.

>  Sound effects are a similar phenomenon - when
>it was just the sound of your gun firing it had no effect on gameplay;
>sound effects in Quake are quite important, to the point that someone
>playing in a network game without a sound card is badly crippled.

But not conceptually.  Anyways, look at the games from Jeff Minter,
with algorithm based music/soundeffects. Or what about Wizzball, very
nice background sound, must have been algorithmic.  Can you mention
one game music composer that has had more fans than Rob Hubbard? ;)
All action games which are based on "make-believe" are crippled
without sound. I don't find the sound in Quake impressive in any way.

>the benefits it reaps from technology, making it a completely
>different beast from games like Castle Wolfenstien, Lode Runner, or
>Battlezone.

But I am talking about concepts, not realism, which I admit can make
me jumpy in Quake (if playing alone, in the dark, with
sound). Although I have to admit that I jumped a lot higher the first
time I heard the nasty shouting in Castle Wolfenstein on the C64, an
SS officer moving with very abrupt moves (blocky, but very fitting)
shouting "ACHTUNG!".  Someone very nasty had seen you and made you his
target. Of course, you didn't expect the computer to talk in those
days.

>> What I am thinking of is to go back look at simple, ugly and FUN games
>> from the past and try to see if some of these concepts could be done
>> in a way that won't suffer too badly from lag. Then one build a new
>
>Erm...isn't that what muds are? :)

;)

Ola.