[MUD-Dev] Re: Marion's Tailor Problem

[quzah]

-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Wiggins <adam at angel.com>
To: mud-dev at kanga.nu <mud-dev at kanga.nu>
Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 7:19 PM
Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: Marion's Tailor Problem


>On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 s001gmu at nova.wright.edu wrote:

[snip]
>> The problem with disallowing PKill/PSteal is that a lot of people on here
>> are advocates of a more 'pure' simulation type game.  They attempt to
>
>And as I always mention whenever this discussion pops up, we're talking
>about a *whole* lot more than just "PKill/PSteal".  With a label like
>this, of course someone is always going to suggest some sort of mechanism
>for simply disabling these two specific actions.
>
>No, when you're doing a full simulation, what we're talking about is the
>ability for one player to interfere with another player's game.  Attacking
>and killing someone is only the most obvious of these.  I will refer again
>to the Beartrap Example (now mentioned enough times that it is worthy of
>upper case):
>
>Buffy digs a hole in the forest.  She takes ten very sharp swords and
>buries their hilts in the dirt at the bottom of the hole.  Then she takes
>loose brush and leaves and covers the hole, concealing it.
>
>Three days later, Bubba is strolling along peacefully through the forest.
>He steps over the concealed pit, unaware of its existence.  The brush
>cannot support his weight, so he falls and is impaled on the swords.  He
>dies.

>Was this PKill?  Did Buffy set the trap in hopes to catch herself a meal,
>or did she do it just to disrupt other players?  Maybe she knew
>specifically that Bubba would be coming that way and that he wouldn't
>notice the pit?

[snip]

Personall, I would say no. It's not direct player kill, anyway.
I am reminded of the very first online text/rpg-wannabe I ever
played. You could buy rope in the town. You could buy food and
drink in the town. You could wander the wilderness for days,
and never find a pit. However, if you went down to the second
level of this dungeon, there was a pit. Noone ever carried rope
in the early days of the game, because noone knew of the pit,
and, the rope took up one much needed slot in your very limited
inventory.

I happened along and fell in the pit. I didn't have a rope.
It was likely that I would have starved to death, since you
could do so in the game. [Actually I believe I talked someone
into coming down with a rope and dragging me out, but that's
beside the point.] While it wouldn't have been pkill, it can
be used to kill someone.

"Hey, boffo, come down to the dungeon with me, I'll help
you get some exp."

"Ok. Thanks!"

[walking along, fall in the pit.]
(a) log off
(b) boot Boffo from the group, and climb out.
(c) "Dang, I forgot a rope." - starve them to death.

Also, the game had many traps set in it. They would go off
whenever you entered the room. [On a personal basis. IE: each
person entering would get hit individually.]

There were double traps in one spot. (room A had one, room B
had one, room A was to the north of room B) Walk along with
your group, having the most hitpoints, enter room B:

n s n s n s n s n s n s n s

Running back and forth in the two traps really fast kills
off your entire party :) (Just judge how many times you
can take and still have hitpoints on a previous trip.)

Lead groups of people way off in the boonies, to get some
good experience, and log off, while the creatures whoop
their butts.

As stated, there's a million ways to kill people without
having to actually kill people. As long as you can die,
someone will figure out how to make someone else die. It's
a given. As for the bear trap, you may not have even set
it, but if you can survive a hit of it, and you know someone
who can't...

>The crux of the problem is that Marian and other players like her *don't*
>want this.  She wants to play a tailor in a world that isn't necessarily
>100% safe; where there are many other character types including fighters
>and thieves.  What she doesn't want is her play regularly disrupted in a
>massive way by one of these character types with ill intent, usually
>someone seeking an easy target and a cheap thrill.  I think she *does*
>enjoy the idea that occasionally someone might try to shoplift, or that a
>dragon might attack the town (to be challanged by the town's defenders, of
>course).  This is the depth of play and game world that I think all of us
>here are interested in, whether or not we want to play violet character
>types.
>
>Adam

Also, people find it a lot better to be killed by some
form of the game than by another real life person playing
the game with them. (Yes, a generalization, but for the
most part, one I think true.) For one, it's a lot harder
to feel betrayed by the game; it's just a game, it didn't
promise a walk to get experience...
-Q-