[MUD-Dev] The morality of logfiles [was 'Wild west']

[Ola Fosheim Grøstad <olag@ifi.uio.no>]

"Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc at ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>On 31 Dec 97 at 10:11, Ola Fosheim Gr=B0stad wrote:
>> An admin can't erase knowledge he has gained about other people from
>> his brain just like that.  The fact that he has gained some knowledge
>> about a person without that person as an active information provider is a
>> problem.  It is easy to come up with embarresing situation.  It is easy =
to
>> picture situations where that knowledge is sifting out..
>>
>
>No, not entirely but largely, it's entirely irrelavent.  I observe dozens =
of
>people everyday without their knowledge.  From a guy picking his nose on t=
he
>rapid to a neighbor kicking his dog around his fenced-in yard. In RL
>unauthorized information abounds.

The "sifting out" thing is not my main reason for being against
monitoring, but one of many reasons.  Anyway, whether you like it or
not, your brain is (most likely, how would I know?) a neural
network. Information does not go in and out at your own will.  Anyway,
systematic invisible control is way different from walking down the
street.  You have to realize that humans are not evolved within a
virtual environent, they are not likely to have the instincts to
protect themselves.  I could number a sillion reasons for why an admin
monitoring users is a lot worse than walking down the street (big
surprise, huh? :-)

>I wouldn't know 99.9% of the persons logging into my mud and frankly don't
>care if half of them are engaged in NetSex with each other, exchanging
>personal and intimate RL details with each other.  Maybe that's an importa=
nt
>difference.  But do the users _trust_ that I don't care?  Perhaps not
>initially.  Trust in administration does not come instantly, unbidden nor =
is
>it something that can be demanded.  It something that occurs over time
>through action.

You almost got it. :-/ I would ideally don't care if someone measure
the size of my dick or whatever.  Some do.  I have my
ego/selfesteem/pride/personal life placed in other areas.  Some does
not.  Being monitored is unpleasant, especially if you have good
reasons to believe that it is happening, but don't quite know (If you
don't know at all, well, then it will become more than unpleasant
later on).  The main issue is not whether you care or not (what do you
mean by this anyway?). The fact that you are watching is the main
issue.  Why are you watching? I don't have any interest in it as a
user, why should I give you my consent?  Because the system forces me
to do so?  Does forcing (or I would rather say tricking) people into
accepting things make them right?? Does this mean that it is morally
acceptable to push limits as far as you can go?

I'll never understand why americans mind rude and obnoxious language
though.  I'm not even sure what it means!  Great, all commercial muds
are as bad as NBC. Lots of freedom...

>There is the peculiar moral dilemma that might occur if one accidently
>stumbled onto information being exchanged about RL crimes committed or bei=
ng
>planned.  I really don't know how I would handle it or whether I would
>believe it.  It's very situation dependent.=20

Well, I think that one is a minor problem. I see the lack of privacy
as the major one.

Ola.