[MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)

[JC Lawrence]

On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:21:36 PST8PDT 
stad <Ola> wrote:

> Mike Sellers <mike at online-alchemy.com> wrote:
>> At 07:57 PM 1/5/98 PST8PDT, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote:

>>> Well, the trouble is.  If I don't see anyone when I am in the
>>> woods, then I think "this is a private area", let's masturbate...
>>> If you get the picture.

>>  No, I really don't see the problem.  For example, if you want to
>> have a private conversation, go to where you _know_ things are
>> private (likely

> So, users should keep the idea "I am being logged" in their mind all
> the time.  

Sure.  It is a fundamental part of the world they are in, just as
obvious and constant in presence as air is in this one.

> Moral aside, what about the human factors here? You are a
> soft science guy! :-/

Ignoring the fact that the above wasn't written to me, no, I'm a math
and religious philosophy guy...

> Well, if you really have to do this. Why not allow people to choose
> whether incoming info should be logged or not?  Then two people can
> turn off logging and chat, if they are offended by eachother, well
> that's their problem.  They turned off logging.

Technically I can't do that.  A base requirement of the system is that
it must be recreatable in its entirety for any instant that the
history is available for.  That requirement is not alterable without
losing all logical consistancy with the internal structure of the
rollback data store.  Its an all or nothing deal with no other
choices.

Technical limits to the side, the same could be said of their moving
to an external vanue such as IRC.

>> BUT: In an online world, we have no fingerprints, hairs, cloth
>> fibers, etc.  There is *NO* forensic evidence, unless we make it
>> ourselves.  The easiest and best "evidence" like this is to log
>> events and statements as the occur, in case they're needed later.

> Yes, yes, but I don't see a one-time "crime" as a problem.

Do you consider the MOO-rape a one-time crime?

> Actually, I think you would have to make sure that they _really_
> understand the implications.  

Given that players will have the ability from their first-login to
time-watch, and will be actively encouraged to make use of the
feature, I suspect that this will not be a problem.

> (I guess I shouldn't mention that I can "turn off" telemarketing on
> my phone? (It does at least have a limiting effect) Norwegian laws.
> Laws have no impact JCL?)

Re-read what I wrote -- that is not what I said.  The laws have an
effect, but they do not, and never have prevented general courses of
action.  They merely cause the forces that created those undesirable
actions to work to find some other method of satisfaction.  You can
push down one point or thing in one place, but something else will pop
up somewhere else as the force finds another leak.  In the case of
employers and employees, employers have a wish to decide who is and is
not a member of their workforce for whatever reason.  If they can't
satisfy that wish with apparent capriciousness they will find a way to
satisfy it in more convoluted but just as effective manners.

--
J C Lawrence                               Internet: claw at null.net
                                           Internet: coder at ibm.net
----------(*)                        Internet: jc.lawrence at sun.com
...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...