[MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance

[Marian Griffith]

On Sat 13 Dec, Adam Wiggins wrote:

An old thread but I liked it :)

> [Vadim Tkachenko:]

> > - Universe should preserve the balance (hopefully).

*shrug* I don't see that as of paramount importance.

> > - Every time cleric prays to his/her God, they gain some energy which
> > then can spend somehow.
> > - From the balance standpoint, their God's energy level should decrease
> > - which is meaningless from the religious point of view - all the
> > history shows that the greater the number of some God's worshipers, the
> > stronger that God
> > - which means that energy levels of both God and worshiper increase as
> > they interact

The simple solution would be to have no change to the priestess when she
prays to her God.  Her belief is what gives her God power and her prayer
is a request on Him to use some of that power to aid her.

> Followers can pray for 'mana' of some sort with which they can do
> whatever.

I like to think of it as asking for specific favours  the God may or may
not grant.  If it is out of line with the nature of the God  then likely
the request is denied.

> There's some other cool stuff about this.  It's best for all the followers
> of a god to be organized into some sort of church.  This church can grant
> or deny entry to potential followers.  This keeps people from hogging
> the god's power - taking more mana than they contribute in life-force.

Actually churches usually have little to do with religion but a lot with
social organisation and pressure on the people to behave in certain ways
In part this was beneficial,  because it prevented the worst excesses of
powerfull people but for the most part it has been used to repress. This
of course has little relevance in a mud where you can organise things as
you see fit.
In your way of thinking,  churches should not keep people out but rather
they should find ways to attract more people. They can be instructed how
to properly pray and thus contribute to the power of their God though it
is only the higher clergy that learns how to pray for favours that their
God will grant. For the other players the church may still act as a kind
of social institution,  providing shelter for the homeless, food for the
starving and protection for the persecuted (and other traditional tasks)

> Now, we took a similar but slightly different route with our deties.
> The bit about the life-force is more or less the same.  However, clerics
> pray for specific things rather than energy.  Each player has a favor
> value with each god (which can be negative if they don't like you, or
> 0 if they don't care about you).  They also have a debt level - how much
> the god feels they 'owe' you.  The cleric who sits devoutly praying each
> day and never asking anything of his god will be able to get whatever
> he wants when he finally does pray, because his debt is very high.  The
> cleric that is constantly calling on her god will have less debt, and
> thus less of a response from her god each time she calls on them.

You forget the situation  where a priestess is doing her God's bidding,
like e.g. protecting the Sacred Forest from defilers. She would need to
pray more often to accomplish her task as she on herself has no special
powers unless they're granted her by her God.  In your example it would
be increasingly difficult for the priestess to protect her forest.  You
need to find some way  to recognise what a prayer is to be used for and
decrease or increase the God's favour accordingly. Also the need should
be taken into account.  A priestess who is hungry may pray for food and
be given some manna  but lose some of her favour with her God.  If this
priestess waits till she is starving and with her last breath prays for
the same food she may receive it without loss of favour, simply because
she relies on her God as a last resort.

> Gods have simple personality algorithms which control how they behave.
> For instance, calling on a destructive god for healing won't make her very
> happy with you, although she may still go ahead and do it if you're high
> in her favor or debt.

Or if you've recieved your wounds while doing Her a favour.

[snip[

> Gods also have a limit to the power they can draw at any one time.  Thus
> if lots of clerics are asking big favors at the same time, some of them
> may get ignored or denied despite the fact that they are perfectly well
> in favor.

Of course. I would still recommend that regardless of the number of
believers a God still has significant power but a slow recuperation
of that power when it is spent. Having lots of followers shoult not
so much -increase- the power itself  but rather allow that power to
be used -more often-.

> Lastly, we do a lot of 'automatic' god effects.  For a simple example:

[example snipped]
Isn't this the same as having a prayer for protection granted, even if
the priest did not actually pray?

> Slightly more subtle stuff is things like the nature god giving you
> a bonus to your luck rolls if you're carrying an acorn, or resistance
> to offensive spells if you're wearing a vest woven from thistledown.
> Naturally this isn't made obvious to the players.  We give them hints
> about this sort of thing through books or their church (if there is one),
> and in many cases purposely mislead them ("the god Hern is known to smile
> upon followers of his that wear crowns made of poison ivy").

Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey