[MUD-Dev] Moving away from the level based system

[rayzam]

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Vanderbeck" <agathorn at cfl.rr.com>
To: <mud-dev at kanga.nu>
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 5:44 PM
Subject: [MUD-Dev] Moving away from the level based system


    <SNIP>

> On a personal note, I abhor level based and class based systems.
> They certainly have thier place, but ideally I think that all
> characters should start out exactly the same when they enter the
> world, and simply "grow" into whatever the player naturally plays.

Going off on a tangent to the point of the original post...

That seems to assume that everyone starts off the same race, or a
single race universe. Let alone no genetic differences, or differences
prior to the age the player gains control of the character. Now, this
isn't a bad thing per se. In my opinion, however, it limits
backstory. Not only should the world have a good backstory, but so
should the character. Or at least the possibility for it. That's a lot
of what having a variety of races does, it gives a template background
for the character: a merman has a different previous history than a
rock troll or a wood elf. And even within a race, having attributes
vary in starting characters aids in building a backstory.  This is
more true if class and race affect starting stats.

In the final analysis, having all characters start off the same, makes
immersion into the game/world take longer for me.


<SNIP>

> This would take him about 2.5 seconds to do.  Once he casts the
> spell however, our character has an interesting situation.  Yes he
> is powerful enough to >cast< the spell, but he will have a lot of
> trouble maintaining it.  He would not be able to maintain it by
> using external energy.  He simply can't gather it fast enough.  What
> he can do is use internal energy, but not for long.  Assuming his
> <g> Batteries were full when he cast, he would be left with 13
> points of energy. Lets run a log:
>
>   Energy -> Time
>   23 -> Cast
>   13 -> Initial
>   11 -> 1 second
>   9 -> 2 seconds
>   7 -> 3 seconds
>   5 -> 4 seconds
>   3 -> 5 seconds
>   1 -> 6 seconds
>
> So we see that he could maintain the spell for a maximum of 6
> seconds.  Remember that he is still gatheringenergy as he is
> consuming it.

<SNIP>

> Comments?

Yes. This is a nice way of running things. It reminds me of
Champions/Heroes with variable power pools..

It's a good system. Stats then become the most important factor. But
I'd like to hear more of the details/differences between it and level-
and skill-based systems.

  1) Okay, but how are the attributes increased? when do they
  increase?  are they trained up with experience? Is there an
  exponential cost scale: IQ of 9->10 is cheaper than 20->21?

  2) In a level-based system, levels determine what skills or spells
  you have access to. In this system, your stats do. So there is still
  a level effect, however, the level number is just more abstract or
  requires a formula. A caster able to handle lightning storm is a
  higher level than one who can only cast up to lightning bolt.

  3) In a class-based system, classes determine your character's
  development. A caster class will give access to the spells the same
  way having those caster-based stats would.

  It seems that this system isn't different in spirit with level,
  class, or skill-based systems. It's slightly different in mechanics:

    a) spells don't need to be trained individually, you get access to
    whatever you can cast based on your stats -> spell points.

    b) I'll assume the same is true for skills, and some skill-energy:
    endurance points?

    c) You gain power by increasing your stats due to this
    open-skill/open-spell policy.

There have been a number of pencil-and-paper games that were attribute
heavy. Torg, Cyberpunk, Earthdawn come quickly to mind. Yes, you had
skills you could train, but that gave you cheaper ways of specializing
your character in specific skills.

And there's the rub. With this attribute only system, 2 players with
the same values of those 3 caster stats are the same casters. No
specialization.  No individuality. That's why all the attribute heavy
RPGs still had the ability to train specific skills.

Without building some of that into there, you're not opening up more
character possibilities [if that is the intention], you're
homogenizing characters even more.

    Rayzam
    www.retromud.org

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