[MUD-Dev] Games vs. simulations

[Richard Tew]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Travis Casey [mailto:efindel at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 8:12 AM
> To: adam at treyarch.com
> Subject: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Games vs. simulations
> 
> 
> Monday, June 19, 2000, 3:09:41 PM, adam at treyarch.com wrote:
> atc> On Thu, 15 Jun 2000, Richard Tew wrote:
> 
> >> I'm finding that the biggest problem so far is working out how to
> >> generate decent room descriptions based on where everything is
> >> placed in the room.
> 
> atc> Funny - I found that bit strikingly easy.  In fact, the 
> basic implementation in
> atc> general is not terribly difficult.  I had always assumed 
> that text muds did
> atc> not use coordinate systems because people found them too 
> hard to program.
> atc> Obviously this is not the case.
> 
> For graphical environments, there are well-known solutions to that
> sort of problem, but problems like that seem to me to be very
> difficult to handle in a text-based mud -- basically, the system has
> to do all the calculations needed to determine what my character can
> actually see, then come up with a text-based description based on
> that.

When your room is a polygon, and exits are aligned to the surfaces,
you need to calculate all the possible movement spaces in it and then
work out where stuff is in relation to the player and what can be
seen.

To me, its a nightmare.  I didn't write our system, mainly because
of what you say, but the guy who did, did it well which is why I
am barely able to make the modifications needed to do the above.
Yes, they are bloody hard to program.

> >> Other than that, I can't say I have any other major concerns that
> >> I can think of at this time about the gameplayers POV.
> 
> atc> Ah - but does it *add* anything from the player's POV?
> 
> I'd say that depends on the players.  For a typical hack-and-slasher,
> say, probably not.  For the kind of player who might want to do
> something like hide a book behind a couch, though, it might very well.

If someone waits beside one exit to ambush you, and you come in the
exit on the other side of the room.  Depending on the size of the room,
it gives you a headstart so that you can run for it (if you're a wuss
like me).

All surfaces become fair game.  By definition a structure has a roof.
Structures also have a defined shape.  Admittedly this hasn't been
fleshed out so I'm just running with the idea, but it gives thieves
more depth for one.  If someone ends up on a roof and its too steep,
then they slide (this part is more or less done).

I can see the first applying to the typical hack and slasher.
The second has possiblities as well.  Drop something on someone
from a roof..

> atc> Or perhaps I should say that it *did* work out, but from 
> the ant's-eye view
> atc> of the players, all of this depth was lost.
> 
> That's a definite problem -- players often don't seem to notice
> richness of detail, even when the details given relate to things they
> can do in the area.  I think part of it is a narrowness of
> expectations -- very few people in my area ever even thought to try
> climbing the trees, probably because they didn't expect to be able to.

But chances are if the depth you have added to your mud is added
consistently, players are going to get the idea to try stuff they
might not on other shallower muds.

In any case, because of alot of alternative design decisions
we have made, we are expecting that playing our game would be
quite a bit different.

> Yep... a basic coordinate system isn't hard, but the things that
> really interest me in having one are things like the halfling,
> screen, and elf I mention above -- which is really easier to do by
> going graphical.

Hmm, ours is hardly basic anymore :)

My two more graphically inclined cohorts were mentioning raycastimg
for determining our line of sight, I guess if we were doing the
halfling elf thing, that would be the way to go.  We might have to
go that way anyway just to get the room descriptions the way we
want them.

In any case, we ruled out going graphical right at the start. I'm
sure the failings of graphical muds have been more than discussed
here before.

If anyone is curious for more about how far our system goes, I have
an article about our coordinate system in Imaginary Realities.

Richard.



_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev mailing list
MUD-Dev at kanga.nu
http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev