[MUD-Dev] Collected comments on C# from comp.lang.python and the python mailing list.

[J C Lawrence]

------- Forwarded Message
To: python-list at python.org
From: Anthony Baxter <anthony at interlink.com.au>
Subject: more python evangelising...
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 00:06:57 +1000

in a mainstream-ish news article, no less...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/11606.html

when talking about C#, and it's relationship to Java...


[snippity]

And an even more cunning route was at hand, as the redoubtable maintainer
of the Java site Cafe Au Lait, Rusty Harold Elliot points out. Elliot,
a long time critic of Sun's licensing tactics, notes: "If Microsoft
wanted to really challenge Java, they should have gone with Python. I
just don't believe it's possible for any major advances in language
design to be made while restricting oneself to the mistakes Kernighan
and Ritchie made 30 years ago."

Well, quite. The open source language Python has not only proven itself
macho enough in heavy duty production environment, it's simple enough
to be taught as a first language to kids. And it's interfaced with COM
interface for several years now. Maybe someone in Redmond thought it
was time to unleash some "innovation" at the world, and cometh the hour,
cometh the new programming language.

[snippity]

- --
Anthony Baxter     <anthony at interlink.com.au>
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
------- End of Forwarded Message


------- Forwarded Message
From: "Neil Hodgson" <neilh at scintilla.org>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
References: <qJ165.8938$nZ5.153196 at typhoon.southeast.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Microsoft's  C# (Sharp) & .NET -- A Heads Up
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 15:07:18 GMT
To: python-list at python.org

> In case you haven't heard Microsoft is coming out with a massive new Web
> stratagy that, in part, uses a new language called C# (That sharp, like in
> music).  ...

   I read the intro and skimmed the language reference today. It doesn't
look like a bad language but it doesn't have anything that jumps out as a
good reason for moving to it. I'd call it a safer superset of C++. There are
some C++ features missing but apart from templates they are not very
important. And its the lack of a template or generic feature that I find
puzzling. The language strives for compile time type safety while allowing
the use of the generic 'object' type, but has no provision for creating new
type safe containers. Even Sun have realised that Java needs a template
equivalent.

   One thing I like is the type unification between basic types and objects.
Unlike Java's use of explicit box classes - Integer holding an int, etc, C#
allows arbitrary boxing of the basic types and structs as needed or by
casting: (object)value. You can not subclass the basic types.

   Its a lower level language than Python, and misses most of the dynamicity
that makes Python so good. OTOH, it will run faster.

    Neil
------- End of Forwarded Message

------- Forwarded Message
From: yonik at my-deja.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Subject: Re: Microsoft's C# (Sharp) & .NET -- A Heads Up
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 21:38:59 GMT
To: python-list at python.org

I skimmed over the C# (C sharp) spec... it addresses many of the
things that I didn't like about java (still leaves some though).
 - preprocessor!!! (I always want this for debugging code)
 - no stupid restrictions of 1 public class per file (bad for
   fast prototyping)
 - unified type system.. everyting is an object, even primitive types
 - addition of goto and unsafe... good for sparing use in high perf
   code.
 - foreach loop iterator
 - enums
 - structs (paired down class that can be stored on stack, etc)
   this one is *very* important.  It allows greater abstraction without
   a runtime cost.
 - properties&indexers (can make code execute on get/set of members)
 - versioning of classes
 - out parameters to methods
 - verbatim string literals (also alows multiline)
 - control of overflow checking
 - attributes (can attach to objects, classes, interfaces, etc)
What is missing that I would like to see:
 - templates (parameterized types)
 - operator overloading (so I can make classes on par with builtin ones)
 - Multiple inheritance for classes (they currently only do interfaces).
   - I don't like the separation of class/interface...  One may have to
     use classes by someone else that did not have the foresight to
     base the hierarchy on interfaces.  Without MI for classes, you are
     now stuck unless you can modify their source code.  Even Sun didn't
     have enough foresight with many of their classes and had to rewrite
     using interfaces later.
 - built in vector and map primitives (like python)

Overall, it is a better language than Java... I just don't know if it
will ever get the support (and good JIT compilers) that Java has now.
Everytime I use Java, I run up against artificial barriers that Sun put
up to "protect" users that they though was bad in C++... makes me
crazy.

I hope MS will standardize the runtime env also and do a better job on
the VM than Sun did.

Of course, if speed isn't critical, I just use Python :-)

- -Yonik
------- End of Forwarded Message

--
J C Lawrence                              Internet: claw at kanga.nu
----------(*)                            Internet: coder at kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...


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