[MUD-Dev] A footnote to Procedural Storytelling

[Zak Jarvis]

> From: Travis Nixon [tnixon at avalanchesoftware.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 2:58 PM

> Brandon Rickman wrote:

>> Highlights of the symposium included:
>>
>> - Selmet Bringsjord's proof that "interesting stories are not
>> computable, therefore cannot be generated."  (I've yet to buy
>> the book, but it might be of academic interest to some of
>> you: _Artificial Intelligence and Literary Creativity :
>> Inside the Mind of Brutus, a Storytelling Machine_)

> I might have to have a look at this book, because I firmly believe that
> statement to be false.  It may very well be that interesting
> stories are notcomputable by todays technology, but frankly,
> I've gone through some (very ) rough and preliminal on-paper
> tests of some ideas for doing just that, and it certainly
> seems possible.  Anybody have any web-based reading on ideas of
> this nature?  (mostly because I'm too lazy to go to a bookstore)

I just purchased the book.  Its single Amazon review was not particularly
positive. I agree with you entirely. I am *convinced* that interesting
stories can be entirely generated procedurally. The real issue is the
presentation of the story, not whether it can be generated. I don't think
anything that resembles what we call computers is going to become the next
ee cummings, but I absolutely believe that we can write programs which
generate interesting stories which digital characters act out.

> As games grow more and more complex, there is a hurdle that is
> going to have to be overcome.  You simply cannot create enough
> content quickly enough to keep a large number of players
> interested for a significant amount of time without abstracting
> the creation process immensely, and automating as much of it
> as possible.

This is one of my major harping points when it comes to game design.
Designers need tools with which to build worlds. We need to be able to say
"I want a mountain range here" and not worry about making the mountains
look real - the computer can take care of that. Of course, the artist is
always going to need an understanding of the underlying mechanics that make
things work or he'll be unable to control his tools, but understanding the
process and being required to simulate it by hand are different animals
entirely.

> This level of detail is going to happen in games.  That's not even a
> question in my mind.  But, I can guarantee that it's not going to happen
> while artists are still building each and every item separately.  (the
> computer, the speakers, the telephone, the soda can, my keyring, assorted
> writing utensils, my computer beanies Byte, Web, Bit, and Ram -
> which were a fathers day present from my kids, by the way, :) various
> sticky notes all over with useful bits of information, like my cellphone
> number  which I never can seem to remember, and one that says "You I love
> Dad", which I think is quite impressive considering it was our four
> year old who wrote it, a glass vase that once upon a time was full of
> hershey's kisses, and still contains a couple of empty wrappers...good
> lord, and I haven't even had to turn my head yet, and I still haven't
> gone through everything that's just in my current field of view)

This level of detail is challenging but certainly not impossible. Pretty
simple rules placed each and every one of those objects. The problem is
that there are a LOT of those simple rules which caused your clutter. A
couple of minor revolutions in computer graphics will be required, but it's
not an insurmountable problem.

> The same thing will happen with "stories" in rpgs.  Those games that will
> blow you away in the future won't be the ones that have human writers
> writing out every plot twist and developing every character.
> The ones that blow you away will be the ones that have a "story server"
> generating those kinds of things at a pace that no group of human
> beings could hope to match. (well, unless you're sega and have a
> development staff of over 200 for shen mue)  Novels definately have

Yep. Though an important detail there is that Sega was only creating a game
for a single user, it's taking them MUCH longer than they anticipated to
create and it's a finite experience. Tools, tools, tools!

I'm pretty certain that a certain amount of the skepticism about whether or
not this can be done is a semantics issue. What is story? Is it the idea
behind the narrative? Is it the course of actions? Is it the words that are
chosen to describe it?

Plot might be a better word to use, though I'm certain there are plenty of
folks who'll be more than willing to argue that good plots cannot be
procedurally generated. Of course that leaves the issue of performance. My
feeling is that in the short term, the performance will be left up to the
players and the system will assign them roles (to a degree). Really, why
waste all that highly developed wetware sitting in front of all that client
software?

-Zak Jarvis
 http://www.voidmonster.com





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