Ten Rules of PvP was RE: [MUD-Dev] Interesting DAoC Poll

[Azeraab]

At 09:32 AM 12/12/01 +0000, matt wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Azeraab wrote:

>> RvR poorly implemented, it feels untested and thrown together.
>> DaoC violates at least 7 of the 10 of the rules for viable pvp
>> system.  Most of the keeps are indefensible and guard nothing.
>> To spend 20+ minutes traveling to the nearest bindpoint to the
>> enemy frontier is another barrier to getting people involved.

> I'm just curious...were you being tongue-in-cheek about that 7 of
> the 10 rules for a viable PvP system? If not, could you share with
> us? I'm curious.  

Sorry, here it is:

Posted on May 27, 2000 at 02:07:42: 

The purpose of these rules is to make your pvp system like a game of Tennis or
Chess where you will only lose if your opponent is better than you or if you
make a mistake.

  1. Options. 

    There needs to be a number of different ways to perform the 2
    basic functions of combat (offense and defense). Every player
    need not have all, but they do need to have more than just a few
    at their disposal. This should be fairly obvious.

  2. Opportunity Cost. 

    Basically what this means is that every power* should have a
    cost in lost opportunity. For example: healing spell uses up
    mana that could be used for an attack spell. Another way of
    saying this is that there there should always be a reason to NOT
    use a power. The most common would be that it will be rendered
    unavailable for the remainder of the fight (harmtouch).

  3. Maneuver, not Attrition. 

    A battle where you slowly beat down your opponent over a long
    period of time is lame. A good PvP combat should be like a game
    of tennis, each contestant tries to put his opponent into an
    awkward position so he can make a kill shot. UO around the time
    of the rep patch, as well as DSO and NWN are good examples of
    this type of fighting. A battle could last an hour, but would
    take only few shots to end. EQ is a pure attrition model - you
    beat each other and hope your opponent runs out of health first,
    the victor is almost always left on the verge of death himself.

  4. For every offense there is a defense.

    4a. This applys to powers not plinks**.

    4b. These defenses must be ablative***. 

      Not only should there be one, but preferable more than
      one. Defenses for being paralized in UO: Magic Reflect
      (counter - being hit with magic), Hiding (counter - area
      attack or detect hidden){this defense has been removed},
      Trapped box (counter - limited in number)

  5. Damage is a range, defense is a percentage.

    5a. This applies to plinks.

    5b. Hard ceilings and floors are preferred. 

      Plinking attacks should always do an amount of damage in a
      certain range. eg sword does 1-8 damage. That range can be a
      set number eg Ice Shards spell does 5 damage every time. If
      the range varies depending on situation, such as a spell doing
      1-6 +1 per caster level there should be a ceiling and floor
      for the spell. Such as 1-6 +1 per level of caster, but never
      less than 4 and never more than 25.  For defenses there should
      be a percentage of damage that they block, or a percentage to
      deflect/avoid the attack totally. Setting a hard range of
      blockage devalues weaker weapons and weaker defenses making it
      impossible to balance your combat system. eg a shield could
      block 50% of melee damage and have a 75% chance to totally
      stop a missile attack. If the shield would block 10 points of
      damage it would make a weapon that does 20 damage 10 times
      more effective than one that does 11 damage making the second
      weapon useless.

  6. Limited Powers. 

    To have an exciting system you really need to have the ability
    to do a "finishing move" this is what powers are for. Since
    there isnt really a set standard for what is a power and what is
    a plink it should just be kept in mind by the designer that
    lower powered attacks should be virtually limitless in their use
    and the most powerful should be available only once or twice per
    battle. The way the AD&D system handled spells is a good
    example. You would have progressively fewer higher level spells,
    and all spells would only be usable once per battle.

  7. Action timer. 

    Every game needs to limit the number of actions you can take by
    time. In the early UO beta it was impossible to be killed so
    long as you had healing potions. There was no limit to how fast
    you could use them. Everything from drinking a potion to casting
    a spell to swinging your sword should be tied to a single
    timer. Older games used a turn based system to do this.

  8. Maximize the sweet spot. 

    The sweet spot is where you have a significant chance to succeed
    and a significant chance to fail. This is mostly directed at
    melee/missile combat and resists on direct damage spells. If you
    are whacking at someone with your sword and miss 99% of the time
    it's totally useless. And if you hit 99% of the time it's
    unfun. Even a newbie attacking a veteran, a fighter useing a
    weapon he has never used before or a mage attacking a fighter
    with a melee weapon should have a good 25% chance to hit, and
    the veteran fighter should have no more than a 75% chance to hit
    back. Remeber we are talking PvP here, not PvE.

  9. The best defense is a good defense. 

    The key to making PvP fun is to make it a chess game. One where
    you must take risks to win, and more importantly where the first
    guy to move does NOT have a significant advantage. The way to do
    this is to make defensive actions stronger than offensive ones.

  10. Standardization or Alteration. 

    I know those who play EQ especially will hate this concept, but
    the best PvP systems are ones where the players are more or less
    the same. Quake is a good PvP game, there everyone is exactly
    the same. In UO you really need to be a 7x GM (or close) before
    you can compete. Just letting you pick your skills/stats like on
    Test Center makes it THE place to PvP in UO now. Unfortunatley
    this makes for the Tank Mage syndrom and eliminates the
    possiblity of forcing diverse parties of mixed classes. The
    other option is to allow players to change mid-course. To pick
    up new skills and customize existing characters without having
    to start over.

Notes: 

  * A power is defined as a strong option. In EQ Shadowknight's
    harmtouch would be a power, whereas his sword not. A 5th or 6th
    circle spell in AC would be a power, a 1st would not. Any form
    of charm or paralysis is a power.

  ** A plink is defined as an inexpensive and weak attack to slowly
     wear down your opponent instead of kill him quickly. Sword,
     Bow, 1st lvl spell in AC, etc.

  *** No need to get a dictionary, basically this means it must be
      possible to wear it down or have it run out.

------------------

DaoC fails on: 1,4,6,8,9,10, is iffy on 2 and 3, but does adhere to 5.




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