[MUD-Dev] RE: The Permadeath of PvP (was RE: Hiding the Numbers (was Re: [M UD-Dev] Maintaining fiction.)

[Lee Sheldon]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Mihaly
> Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 11:48 PM
> To: mud-dev at kanga.nu
> Subject: Re: The Permadeath of PvP (was RE: Hiding the Numbers
> (was Re: [MUD-Dev] Maintaining fiction.)

>> The answer to the low PvP seems to be "They did it wrong.  We'll
>> do it right."  I'd argue that no more than the same 20% or lower
>> -want- somebody to do it right.  The others simply don't want
>> PvP.

> This is the second time in two days I have seen the assertion that
> many of those working on commercial muds are K types, which is not
> at all my impression (my impression is largerly Es with a liberal
> sprinkling of As).  Then again, UO is (in)famous for the PKing in
> it, and SWg will have a lot of PvP in it, and I am an EAS, with
> only 6% K according to the andreasen.org test. :)

If I were to judge by the people I'm currently working with, I'd
have to agree.  But other than making sure even the kitchen sink is
in a design, how do you explain all the effort that goes into PvP? 
(And in this sense I mean PkP - I think Matt has a good point
elsewhere about trying not to assume it means only players killing
players - but killing is what this discussion seems to be focused
on.)

Maybe somebody from Shadowbane of DAoC could address this?  If you
aren't Ks, Why place as much emphasis, both in the game and in the
face you present to the public, on PkP as you do?

> I do think that people tend to compare themselves. All the
> time. Given a way to do it, they'll do it, regardless of
> personality type.

Oh, absolutely.  I wish I could give you a current example, but let
me just say as a statement of philosophy that the more opportunities
you give players to "show off," and I mean that in a kindly way, the
more they'll take to all the little extra things you give them to
do.

> I also think that a lot of people who are not K types enjoy
> player/player conflict. And that's a lot of people you oculd get
> playing your game if youdid it in a way they enjoyed.

If PvP is defined more broadly than PkP, and if you're speaking
generally about males.  There is competition in a hearts game, but
there is rarely conflict, and what there is is outside the game, not
part of its gaming system.  I think when you start to discuss
"people" in this general way, you have to cleave along the sexes.

> I think the niche within the niche is the all-conflict game.

Agreed, but one of my points was that it is in direct competition
for the hearts and minds of the shooter audience.  It's a value
perception for me.  I think a game that had no PkP would be making a
statement to a much larger segment of potential players that adding
PkP than trying to protect the majority of players from it.

Lee

_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev mailing list
MUD-Dev at kanga.nu
https://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev