[MUD-Dev] Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction?

[Sean Kelly]

From: "rayzam" <rayzam at home.com>

> Your basic point by this point, is that monsters respawn, quests
> respawn, a dead guy doesn't stay dead. In a PkP game like you're
> saying is necessary, I don't see the inherent difference *on this
> axis*. That other faction/team/player who dies, doesn't stay
> dead. You gain that land, the faction gains it back later,
> assuming hte factions are balanced out. If not, one wins, game
> resets to starting state, and goes again.

This ties into the permadeath debate, but it is a good point.
However I think the player resurrection issue is the only way in
which it's similar to a respawning quest.  Respawning quests will
reset whether anyone does anything or not.  If you sit there in the
"final room" the big guy you killed will eventually reappear, the
evidence you planted will disappear, whatever.  In a PvP game, if I
take some land from another faction, I control it until someone else
takes it from me.  ie. there is nothing inherent in the engine that
will spontaneously negate the effect of what I have done.  My
enemies may resurrect somewhere (akin to monsters respawning), but
they still have to take back their land.

> The differences that do exist is in striving against other humans,
> instead of more limited human creations. This makes the game more
> challenging, or brings in more to the experience in many different
> ways. It doesn't bring in the: I killed bob, bob is dead. I got
> that land, the change will last, at least not in game design terms
> [either a reset or a design so no one faction could 'win'].

Any world that's around long enough will wittness countless rises
and falls of power.  The issue in my mind is that this sort of thing
be dependent on the actions of the populace, not some magical law of
physics.  If I take land, I should be given the option to defend it,
or have people settle on it and build statues in my honor or
whatever.  Such a model provides not only an outlet for the more
competitive aspects of game playing (the actual warring), but throw
in a viable economic system and a bunch of tradeskills and suddenly
you've got artisans, smiths, nobles vying for favor, and farmers
whose crops are being ravaged by some scary creatures lurning in the
forests.  (I have to say that the virtual ecology initially intended
to be in UO was fantastic)

I agree that playing against (or with) other people makes the game
more challenging and interesting than it ever could be with AI NPCs,
but I don't think it follows that without permadeath players are
just filling the role of NPCs in a static quest system.  Also, there
are a multitude of on-death options besides instant resurrection
nearby, some of which would keep the players from re-entering the
battle for a long time or ever.


Sean

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