FW: [MUD-Dev] Interesting EQ rant (very long quote)

[Travis Casey]

Tuesday, March 27, 2001, 11:10:51 PM, Matt Mihaly
<the_logos at www.achaea.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, J. Coleman wrote:

>> The difference of opinion comes in when we attempt to define where
>> the game world ends and the "real" world begins. Are player message
>> boards, web sites, and hint books part of the game world? I don't
>> believe so. So when the player looks outside of the game world to
>> solve a problem inside the game world, then we have the metagame
>> phenomenon.

> The game world is part of the real world. It cannot be
> otherwise. The thought of a unicorn is still a part of the real
> world. Everything conceivable is.

This has nothing to do with what he's saying, though, which is that
the real world is not part of the game world.  I'd say that in a
perfect world, you should be able to design the game world without
worrying about players using metagame methods.  From a practical point
of view, though, you can't.  It's just like computer security -- in a
perfect world, no one would ever try to harm your data or use your
system for things you don't want it used for.

Thus, on the level of ideals, I agree with J.  On the level of
actually running a game, I agree with Matt.  :-)

(I'd argue, though, that "everything conceivable" is not part of the
real world.  The thought of a unicorn is a part of the real world, but
a unicorn is not.  Is a unicorn not conceivable?)

>> Powergaming may not be a concern to some of the people on this
>> list, indeed, some people relish it. But even on a RP-light mud,
>> powergaming has no place. Casual gamers may well be a little
>> behind, in terms of character ability, the people thay can afford
>> to play 12 hours or more every day, but there is no reason
>> whatsoever to allow knowledge crossover.

> Shrug. I could make an equally silly statement: Even in a
> Power-gaming light MUD, roleplaying has no place. Both are
> statements I think are silly, because both illustrate a mindset that
> says "I want to make my players play like I want them to, not like
> they want to."

I think the mindset is rather "I want to play with other people who
like the same kind of game I do."  No force or coercion is involved.

Adventure games (by which I mean what others would call "powergaming"
or "GoP" -oriented games) are a distinct type of game from
role-playing games.  They have similarities, but there are also
differences.

It's like the difference between an action movie and an art house
movie.  Are the makers of art house movies silly because they're
making movies that a lot of people won't want to watch?

However, I would distinguish between powergaming and cheating.  Not
all powergamers are cheaters -- and many who are "cheating" by the
stricter standards don't understand that what they're doing is
considered to be cheating.  Powergaming can be a legitimate part of an
RP environment.
 
>> It's just a matter if time before these wonderful text muds and
>> these (relatively) awful graphical muds get together and have
>> little multiplayer online babies. It's up to us, on this list and
>> elsewhere, to ensure that what comes out has the best features of
>> both, and not the worst.

> You do realize, that UO, for instance, was designed by a text MUDer? 
> It's not as if the people doing graphical MUDs have never played a
> text MUD.

I think that J. Coleman is making a classic mistake here -- namely,
thinking that because he/she likes something better, it *is* better.

Here's a rule of mud-building:

  You cannot build a mud that everyone will consider to be the best.

Or, to put it more succinctly:

  There cannot be a perfect mud.

Different people have different tastes in what they like.  For
example, I personally see Matt's descriptions of what his mud is like,
and I cringe.  They're nothing like what I would like.  However, there
are many people who are very happy with his mud.  Further, a mud that
I would be very happy with would probably make Matt cringe.  Our
tastes in muds are just very, very different.

That doesn't make either of us wrong or bad, though -- just different.

--
       |\      _,,,---,,_    Travis S. Casey  <efindel at earthlink.net>
 ZZzz  /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_   No one agrees with me.  Not even me.
      |,4-  ) )-,_..;\ (  `'-'
     '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)   


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