[MUD-Dev] Korea and online world responsibility

[Sean Kelly]

apollyon wrote:
>> From: "Sean Kelly" <sean at ffwd.cx>

>> So it appears the fear is spreading.  But is this any different
>> from the attribution of games like DOOM to events like the
>> Columbine shootings? Are the producers of potentially addictive
>> products responsible for aiding in the control of that addiction?
>> And could all these problems just be solved by better parenting?

> From what I understand, the connection is a little less tenuous
> than the connection to the Columbine shootings.  When Character A
> kills Character B, prompting Player B to stand up from his chair
> in a Korean internet cafe, walk across the room pulling out a
> knife, and stab Player A, it's much easier for the media to lay
> blame clearly upon the game itself, whether or not that blame
> truly belongs.  The comparison to the Columbine shootings is
> perhaps not the best to use.

It's a matter of correlation vs. causation.  While the two are a tad
mixed in this case because you could argue that the violence
wouldn't be occurring if the game didn't exist, you could also argue
that these kids would likely react the same way in similar
competitive situations. That is, eliminating the game likely
wouldn't eliminate the violence -- just change the motive and the
venue.  Still, you're right, that doesn't change the fact that the
game is causing violence between minors.

>> So now there will be Gamer's Anonymous.  "Hi my name is Bob and
>> I've been 1337-free for 0xA days now."  I understand the need for
>> game developers not to be seen as Bad People, but should it
>> really be necessary for them to fund alternative entertainment
>> programs?

> Necessary?  No.  Helpful, and a good PR move?  Could be.  Where is
> the down side to taking this precautionary measure?

...

> The IMPRESSION I'm getting, and I don't have any statistical
> backing on this, is that in much of SE Asia (and Korea in
> particular) these incidents are on the rise to the point where
> they are becoming statistically significant.

Only that it seems yet another instance of society being blamed and
held accountable for what is generally a family problem.  Still, if
drug arrests warrant rehab time, perhaps game-related crimes should
warrant rehab time as well.  They're both manifestations of the same
type of behavior.  And if the rate of game-related violence is
really that high, perhaps there is some social basis for it.

>> So is the problem the in-game violence leading to RL violence, or
>> that people are becoming addicted to the games and their lives
>> are suffering as a result?

> I don't think the two can be isolated from one another.

Since both could be considered manifestations of addiction-related
behavior, I'd have to agree.  But one instance is purely
self-destructive and the other is outwardly violent.  Would both be
addressed by rehabilitation?  Probably.  But assault with a deadly
weapon is obviously a criminal offense while ignoring schoolwork to
play a game isn't.  But then Raph mentioned prostitution as a method
of payment for game-items, which is a much stickier issue.

> I agree.  Ultimately, I think we need to look at the end result
> and decide as a culture whether that end result is acceptible.  If
> Pokemon cards were creating a wave of deaths across the nation,
> something would need to be done to stop it, regardless of whether
> or not the marketing relied upon addiction.
 
> And on a side note, how healthy is it to be introducing our
> children to addictions as young as possible?

Not too healthy IMO.  I'm sure a case could be made that it
engenders a tendency for addictive behavior later in life.  But a
society of people with the tendency for addiction is a marketing
agency's wet dream.  And advertisements targeted at children pretty
much all rely on peer pressure and one-upmanship in their campaigns
(ie. emotive methods). Heck, another section of the media is
dedicated to turning people into obsessed fans of actors (as yet
another product-marketing tool), and seems to be particularly
successful when the target audience are children.  Does the fact
that addiction-aimed schemes occur daily make it right?  Of course
not.  But I doubt that purely addressing computer games will solve
much.  Though it would ease the consciences of the game designers.

> Again, I think we need to look at the end result if we are to
> address the issue.  If PE classes offering competetive sports were
> increasingly resulting in the intentional violent deaths of our
> children, would we not do something about it?

Definately.  Point made.

> I think everyone on the planet has a moral resposibility to
> consider the potential social repercussions of their actions, and
> that includes any products that they may be responsible for
> creating or using.  I don't think the issue can be isolated to
> "violence in games" or "competetive behavior."  I think you need
> to look at the whole package and analyze it in terms of the end
> result.  We disagree in where we feel the ultimate responsibility
> lies.  I would like to think that the ultimate responsibility for
> addressing these concerns is the society as a whole, because I may
> raise a perfectly healthy child who stops in at a cafe to grab a
> snack and get stabbed through the eye because someone else's child
> wasn't being cared for.  I can take steps to prevent that now, or
> I can bemoan the loss of my son (and your son, and his son, and
> their son), later.

But there's no way to protect your child from being in the wrong
place at the wrong time aside from not letting them go anywhere.
And people can become addicted to pretty much anything.  Still, I'm
interested in why so much violence can be attributed to online
games.  Is this a further manifestation of the tendency for
flamewars in online forums?  I imagine that physical abstraction
from the other players makes dehumanization of those players
incredibly easy, and that this feeling is easily sustained for the
short time required by an immediate violent action.  Would that
there were some way to instill that feeling of physical immediacy in
online games.  It would probably result in a lot fewer k3wld00dz as
well.


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