[MUD-Dev] Enforced log out aka "real sleep"

[Brian Hook]

<EdNote: Please don't use this multiple-equal-quoting-level method
of replying to multiple posts.  It makes tracking attribution across
subsequent replies error prone>

Okay, took a while for me to get around to reply to these.

Michelle Elbert said:

>  I'm curious as to what the motives are for making logout part of
>  game play.

I personally don't have a motivation for it, really.  After reading
my WW fan fic, it just got me thinking about the dynamics of that
situation and how it would relate to a real-time on-line universe.

>  You're right that most games do not have sleep per sae, but they
>  do have down time.

In this particular case (enforced log out), it's to ensure that the
temporal balance of power is maintained.  Down time solves a very
different problem (contention for resources, braking effect on
advancement) and is there to encourage socializing and (mental)
respite from combat.

>  Making the player stop playing before they decide they want to is
>  generally bad.

Agreed, which is why I brought this up.  But by the same token, to
some extent this can be viewed as extended turn based combat =) In a
less onerous concept, imagine a game where your wizard gets intense
magical abilities during the night hours only.  It would still be
fun (because you can do other stuff during daylight hours), however
there is a certain excitement/dread associated with the day night
cycle.  It would be interesting to see that extended one last bit
where you're effectively inactive during the day cycle, and in fact
may die if you can't find shelter in time.

>  So, once again, the question is, as it ever is, what to do with
>  the "down time".

That's a better way of looking at it.
 
Alex Kay said:

> How about this, if Necro's in EQ where given this restriction
> right now (I haven't played for ages, so I'm thinking back to when
> they were l33t, if they're not anymore), would people stop playing
> them?

The key here is that they would still have the options of doing
other things during the day.  In a situation where your character is
inactive, then an alternate character is going to be required.

Skaei said:

[paraphrase: reduce power in sunlight, give them indoor/dark places
to do something during the daylight hours]

A reasonable approach, but one that feels to me more like glossing
over the fundamental nature than one that fixes it.  Now sunlight is
an inconvenience instead of an actual balancing factor.  What piqued
my interest is its use as an actual balancing factor.

Travis Nixon said:

> Actually, it really sounds pretty cool, and could lead to some
> exciting/fearful moments if dawn is coming and you don't know if
> you're really going to be able to make it home.  :)

That's the vibe I was thinking of.  When reading WW fiction, this is
a common and recurring theme that adds to the action.  In at least
two books I've read, primary characters either get caught in the sun
and fried, or must try to stay out in the sun to capture/battle an
enemy that is evading them by being active only during the day.

> Of course, I can only speak for myself, and I would definately
> want the ability to play another character while the vampire was
> sleeping.  And then of course you have play time issues, such as
> what happens if its always daytime in the game when I have a
> chance to play.

The alternate play character is a recurring theme...I like the idea
of playing a ghoul + vampire.  But then, how do you limit when the
ghoul can play? =)

> Honestly though, I don't think you can dismiss ideas like that out
> of hand.

Which is why I brought it up -- fundamentally the rational game
designer in me recognizes that it's a REAL bad idea.  Telling
players "You have to stop playing this character right now" is very,
very wrong.  But at the same time, if you discount this without
thought, you end up leaving huge areas of game play unexplored,
including balancing things based on day/night cycles or even the
simple exhiliration of racing against time constantly.

Rayzam said:

> The vampires rush around near sunrise trying to get the last few
> things they want done, the last few people talked to, and whatnot
> before their time runs out. The first thing they do upon sunset is
> try to find out what happened during the day, from friends,
> allies, anyone who could be around and was.

>   - It aids in forming alliances with others who can exist/play >
>   at other times.

>   - There is a sense of urgency at the end of each night.

>   - There is a sense of surprise at the start of each nite.

Exactly, the above is the type of experience I'd love to see
translated to on-line play.  I think it's doable, I just don't know.
Obviously, some aspects (like depending on _player_
unconsciousness), are kind of a bitch to emulate =)

One direction this could all be taken is as a form of RTS/RPG.  A
friend of mine actually suggested this in passing a couple years ago
at dinner -- configure it as an RTS, where players control a primary
Kindred and build their powerbase by acquiring ghouls.  Sabbat and
Camarilla vampires would be in direct competition, and you could
toss in Garou, Mages, Hunters, etc. to fill out the universe.

The world would feel like a big, bustling universe, but you'd never
know which "units" were enemy units, which were "ghoulable", etc.
Your Kindred character would be your hero/avatar, but much of the
real work would be political or menial (determined by the power of
your respective ghouls).  Start small by enthralling beat cops,
become powerful enough to have the police chief enthralled, etc.
Then the day/night thing is subsumed by the larger metagame of power
building/strategy/politics.

Which, of course, then has me come back around to "Well, is enforced
logout/character inactivity doable or not?" =)

It's an interesting concept, I just wish I had more time to pursue
it.

Brian

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