[MUD-Dev] BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights

[John Buehler]

Jeff Cole writes:
> From: John Buehler

>> The property involved here is that of Mythic, not the players.
>> The players are interacting with an entertainment source and are
>> developing a misconception that they are actually in the
>> environment depicted on the screen and that they own the objects
>> that their characters are depicted to own.  This is part of what
>> I was talking about about the problems with immersion.  People
>> start to believe things that simply aren't true.

> I am in law school and can tell you that there is a legitmitate
> legal issue.  "Property rights" within the context of the law are
> a construct of society through which a person can form those
> expectations which he can reasonably hold in his dealings with
> others.  What's more, property rights extend to possessors other
> than the "true owner."

I certainly won't argue that.

>> There are no objects to own.  There is only data and graphics to
>> depict the idea of objects.

> Property is not about "objects" (e.g. intellectual property), it's
> about a bundle of rights which a person can reasonably expect to
> exercise and which the law will enforce.  A song is not an object,
> yet the law recognizes a property right known as a copyright.

And in that spirit, Mythic retains rights to the song that they
wrote - Dark Age of Camelot.

>> And those depictions are owned, lock, stock and barrel, by
>> Mythic.

> Maybe, maybe not.  Even if Mythic is (or at some time were) the
> "true owner" of such items, the player may still have a property
> interest in the items which it's character "owns" within the game.

I suspect that you mean something very specific when you speak of
'property interests'.  As a result, I can't comment on this other
than the following: The ability to manipulate images and data does
not make those images and data the property of the manipulator.  No
more than singing a song in my own style makes that song my own.

>> As an example, the leasor of an automobile is not obligated to
>> permit you to transfer the lease to another person. Same thing
>> with a rented home.

> That is more akin to the selling of accounts-- something which, in
> my post, I distinguished from selling items.

> With respect to selling items, though, your rental home analogy
> fails.

>   Consider: Rofrano v. Duffy, 291 F.2d 848 (C.A.2 1961).  In this
>   case, a tenant sued his landlord for recovery of $10,500 cash
>   which the tenant had found in his basement (in a lunch box,
>   behind paint cans on a shelf six feet above the ground) and had
>   turned over to his landlord on the latter's representation that
>   he was the owner. The United States District Court for The
>   Southern District of New York entered a judgment for the tenant
>   and the landlord appealed. The Court of Appeals held that the
>   tenant either as the finder or occupant of premises was entitled
>   to mislaid money discovered by him on shelf in the basement.
>   Tennat got the money because he was the occupier of a rental
>   space.

> This is an example of the common law.

> The issue is complex.

Well, nothing is complex once it's understood :)

I don't see the applicability of Rofrano v. Duffy.  In that case,
there is real property which has an owner.  Further, that property
was not provided by the landlord.  As a result, there was an issue
of whether the property falls into the ownership of the leasor or
the landlord.

I'm differing over the classification of game items.  Are game items
no more than a data and image manipulation service provided by
Mythic, or do game items actually exist as property in the same way
that a rock in the real world exists as property?  Those who favor
games as an immersive reality will naturally gravitate to the
latter.  I oppose the immersive qualities of these games and
naturally gravitate to the former.

If game objects are given property status, then I suspect that game
avatars will eventually be given distinct legal status in the line
of people, and not objects - or even left as another part of the
manipulation service.

JB

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