[MUD-Dev] 3rd Axis for Bartle's 2 axis theory of MUD players

[Richard A. Bartle]

On 27th October 2002, Ola Fosheim Grxstad wrote:

>>   (Linking virtual worlds to Hinduism seems to be in vogue at
>>   present!)

> (Due to the word "Avatar" and whatever that evokes in people's
> minds, I suppose...?)

I was thinking more of the rather tenuous connections between
virtual worlds and the game Moksha-Patamu ("Snakes and Ladders")
that was presented in the latest Edward Castronova virtual economy
paper.

>> I know what it is, but "good experience" and "immersion" are
>> orthogonal concepts.

> Well, substitute "good" with "optimal" and I am not convinced. I
> think they correlate (in virtual worlds)

Er, but you didn't say "optimal", you said "good".

> The core mechanism, as I see it, is that you believe (or feel)
> that what you "do" (possibly mentally) has the potential of
> bringing the situation under "control".

No, immersion not a control issue at all for me.

> Well... depends. If I am roleplaying then hopefully it won't.

If you're role-playing like an actor role-plays, then no, it won't.
I do discuss this difference between what MUSH-style "hard"
role-players and EQ-style "soft" role-players in my book.

> Well, ok, I do both, but when I am truly immersed I have
> internalized the character values and rules and don't have to
> think about them anymore. I am then capable of bypassing the
> translation stage

I don't bypass it, I just don't notice it's there.

> Whether you may be able to immerse yourself solely on perception
> alone given ideal technology is an open question.

I'm more interested in the ability to immerse yourself without
direct perception at all. Textual worlds can immerse players, and
they merely describe what is perceived - the player's imagination
does the rest.

> my female character is sitting in the lake (with a swimming suit)
> besides her sister for hours (!) watching the sun rise and set
> over and over.  Then talking in a dreamily fashion of what is
> going on around, imagining the desert and people being in it and
> so on. Is that close to what you are talking about?

No, it's not what I meant at all.

I've been wandering around in a virtual world I knew well and seen
something which reminded me of an incident that had happened in the
past.  I've thought back to that incident, the other person
involved, how new and enthusiastic she was, how time changed her,
some of the things she used to do... All the while, the virtual
world was passing me by; I was effectively "staring into space"
while I reminisced, imagined what she would have made of some of the
people who'd appeared after she'd left, smiled as I anticipated what
her responses would have been... Then, I snapped out of it and
continued on my way. I never once left the virtual world.

That's what I mean by daydreaming.

Richard



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