[MUD-Dev] [DGN]: Ludicrous scheme.

[Yaka St.Aise]

At 00:11 -0400 03/09/05, Amanda Walker wrote:
> On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 01:49 AM, Yaka St.Aise wrote:

>> What are the odds of succesfully translating a graphical MUD
>> (MMORPG) project into a text-mode MUD ?

> I'll evade by tossing out a related question:

> What's the current thinking about a MUD/MMO world with multiple
> types of client?  3D, 2D isometric, text, telephone,
> etc. *simultaneously*.

This is an idea I toyed with for a MMORPG design, and it was shelved
(the idea) for several reasons.

The original idea was to open the specs (possibly the source) for
the client as a proof of the safety of the design (basically the
design didn't rely on the client programm to hide info from the
player, nor limit its abilities, the client being a strict terminal
I/O peripheral for a game running strictly server-side).  I would
have allowed for the use of different (possibly 3rd-party) rendering
engines, running on the instructions of the 3D world simulation
expressed as an abstraction layer.

The goal was a noble one: giving the players the choice of fully
experiencing the game in a anime-style up to photorealistic
graphical rendering, but most people here can already see what a hog
it was bandwidth and CPU wise, and why it was eventually
forgone... (most MMOGs have the client run a limited, synchronized
"children" version of the simulation locally, partly to deal with 3D
display constraints).

Another issue beyond the elegant yet unmanageable (given this game
setup and the resources of the team, at least) option of totally
insulating the rendering from the crunching of the 3D simulation was
the difficulty to maintain consistency among all possible
representations.  A different "skin" for the same object meant
collision handling became an issue of untenable compromises between
Batman-style capes flowing right through props and actors bodies ;)

A third issue, if we were to acknowledge the limitations of each
type of I/O systems, was to be satisfied with some versions of the
client that could only grant access to a subset of the features
supposedly available of the client program.  While you don't expect
a plug-in type IM or email interface to allow you fighting realtime
furball, the line got blurred when it came to 2D vs 3D, or
diifferent same-xD clients, leading to a lot of frustration because
the player could do this, this, and that, but not this, and only
barely that.  Designing features you know will prove frustrating at
the utmost is digging the grave of player enjoyment, so it was a
big-time stopper, too.

Back to obviously different styles of clients, of the kind that
doesn't lead to unfulfillable expectations, like text vs 3D vs
2D(tactical), vs phone, it was doeable, at the cost of clients
handling only subsets of the available featureset.  Actually we did
consider smartphone-as-terminal, but not voice, but there might be a
good idea, here: voice chat over your cell phone to advise teamates,
undercover cop, only better...

> I know AO has a way to enter in-game chat channels without logging
> into the game, but I think there's more that might be handy.  For
> example, I might have a whiz-bang 3D gaming box at home.  While
> travelling I might have an old Celeron laptop (or my Mac running
> VirtualPC, or whatever--something without much 3D capability).

As stated above simply scaling down the level of details is nothing
like showing the same objects both in 2D and 3D simultaneously
(depending on several clients looking at the same objects) while
maintaining consistent positional accuracy.  Even staying in the 3D
realm, albeit "lighter" (Vectrex anyone ?), may prove troublesome
because it may entail using a different engine which would have to
behave consistently.

> While waiting for a train, I might have my phone with a teensy
> little WAP browser.

This is where it surprisingly may become easier, depending on the
gameplay style intended:

  - For a twitch game, this is probably a no go.

  - For a turn-based, timed realtime or hybrid, it may work,
  providing a decent iconic (as in silmplified) representation of
  the key elements of gameplay can be achieved.

Don't expect to succesfully go thru a mass-battle this way, though
;)

> I can see being quite happy using, say, a 2D map or isometric view
> on the underpowered laptop for stuff like chatting with
> guildmates, shopping, doing various in-game tasks that don't
> require bump-mapped vertex-shaded chrome with surround sound, as
> much as I might enjoy it at home on the gaming box.  For games
> with in-game email (such as SWG), I definitely see a place for
> text-only (or gatewayed) interaction.

Additional interfaces, suited to limited/specific tasks are a
growing trend already, but gaining the ability to plug on the game
various full-featured interfaces would require something text games
have done pretty well for ages yet 3D games have no clue how to: a
language as a protocol.

Meaning a syntax and grammar to describe and act upon facts, events,
actions and objects at an abstract level, turning the game engine
and world simulation into a black box with a strict server/terminal
architecture, and using said language as the mean of communication
between clients and server.

Or did I miss something ?

> This is one area where I think the "game as immersive movie"
> analogy breaks down.  If these are virtual worlds we're building,
> shouldn't alternative presentation styles be possible?

Indeed should they -- in many cases.

Breaking the "immersive movie" model may be more or less harmful
depending on the game setup, and in many cases the good out of this
"bad" may prove beneficial.

Immersiveness in most games is threatened and wrecked on a regular
basis by interface elements and SoD disrupting features/flaws, yet
many players manage to overcome these drawbacks by the sheer force
of will and imagination (arguably easier in text than in graphical
mode).

A sci-fi/futuristic setup has obviously an easier time accomodating
IM and email, and vector-showing rendering, when dressing windows as
parchments does a cheap job of making a buddy-list consistent with
any believable medieval metaphor.  Well, it depends on one's take on
realism in fantasy, I suppose...

In this regard, it is worthy to note how different (sub)cultures
relate to metaphors (be they graphical, iconic or textual) to
describe reality, and what will make a medieval setup "believable"
for your average north-american or west-european is only a hint of
the challenges we face in maintaining SoD through several
representations, but this challenge may also be a blessing in
disguise if it provides and opportunity to tailor design interfaces
and metaphors to better serve specific cultural groups.

How's that for a cute loop to another topic ?

  http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2003Q3/thread.php#00097

Best,
	Yaka.
--
--------------
"Everyone is a prisoner of his own experience. No one can eliminate
prejudices--just recognize them. "
[Edward R. Murrow]
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