[MUD-Dev] Removing the almighty experience point...

[Matt Mihaly]

Sean Kelly wrote:
> "Matt Mihaly" <matt at ironrealms.com> wrote:
>> Bloo wrote:

>>> That's one way to look at it.  Another is that people will put
>>> up with a lot to sort of 'play' something online that is
>>> escapist with other people from the convenience of their homes.
>>> In that way, the grind is something tolerated rather than
>>> desired.

>>> And the lack of grind-free options that are entertaining is
>>> another factor.

>> This doesn't make sense. If the problem with grind-free options
>> is that they're not entertaining, and if grinds aren't
>> entertaining, then how are almost pure-grind games like Everquest
>> entertaining to these masses of people who are playing it but
>> apparently don't like grinds?

> Perhaps because EQ represents the best option available?

So what makes it the best option available then? EQ = grind. There's
not much else there. If the grind isn't what these people want, why
are they in one of the most grindy of all the MMOs? I see a lot of
people here starting with the conclusion that the "grind is bad" and
then coming up with all sorts of weak arguments to support that. I'd
suggest just looking at the evidence first, which is pretty
clear-cut, and then drawing your conclusions: Many, many players
enjoy the grind.

> IMO the current crop of MMORPGs is kind of odd in that it attempts
> to map a single-player RPG concept onto a MM world.

When I first pitched Achaea (our first game) to potential investors,
I described most existing MMORPGs/MUDs (people didn't use the MMORPG
acronym then) as "one and a half" player games, rather than
multiplayer games, precisely because of that.

> I think this is the "stickiness" I mentioned above.  Or perhaps
> because people have friends in game and organizing a mass exodus
> is impossible?

Occam's razor would seem to suggest that maybe they just like the
grind.  Certainly if they just wanted to chat with their friends,
they could just sit in the game chatting. That's not what they're
doing.

>> But there are lots of places where other people are. You're also
>> only really participating with the people on the server you're
>> on, which really widens your options in terms of reasonably
>> equivalent populations.

> True enough, though this suggests that online relationships are
> interchangable.  Sure, a player can make friends somewhere else,
> but that would mean leaving people behind and trying something new
> just for the sake of better game mechanics.  It would be like
> switching to a new school just because you didn't like your
> teacher.  It's no wonder new MMORPGs have such trouble finding
> players.

They do? Huh. I don't think WoW is going to have any trouble. CoH
had no trouble. SW:G had no trouble, even if it has reportedly
underperformed expectations. Runescape hasn't had problems. Final
Fantasy hasn't had problems. These are all very grindy games.

I think a lot of people on this list want to believe that everyone
in the world wants to play like he or she wants to play.

--matt
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