[MUD-Dev] Removing the almighty experience point...

[brian at thyer.net]

Vincent Archer <archer at frmug.org> wrote ..

> Well, if you have games with XP but no classes/levels, why not have
> a game with classes/levels and no XP?

> Ultimately, levels are used in a game to measure one thing:

>   - Your readiness to accede to a new segment of content

> This is due to a simple problem: XP, as a numerical indicator, is
> a form of cash.

<snip>

> That led me to suggest a different model of levelling. It's called
> the "achievement model", because it caters essentially to
> achievers, of course, like most level-based systems.

<snip>

> Using "correctly" a skill you can gain at level W is itself an
> achievement of level W. And so on.

> The idea is that, if your character is level 20, then by
> definition, you (the player) have a good knowledge of the game
> world and/or a good equipment and/or a knowledge of your class
> abilities and/or experience (in the real world sense) of playing
> in a group in some challenging situations.

<snip>

> That kind of achievement-based system behaves very differently
> from an XP-based levelling system. It rewards real world knowledge
> and skill, notably. An experienced player can roll a new
> character, and very quickly "level", by simply running to various
> places he already knows, and reproducing feats he's already seen
> by other players he grouped with.

> The largest problem with that system is, of course, coming up with
> achievements.

<snip>

> However, no player can ever accuse your game to encourage grind
> (repeating mindlessly the easiest task you can find for your
> level) or call it a treadmill, if the requirements for real skills
> keep changing as you level.

>   (oh, and if you want to keep grind, make the game item-oriented,
>   and have the players hunt mobs to get equipment/crafting
>   materials)

It's not a bad idea, something I've certainly thought a bit about,
but let me play Devil's Advocate here a little.

To sum up a bit, your idea is to get rid of experience and replace
it with accomplishements.  So instead of earning a level through
experience, you earn a level through accomplishing something?

Instead of fields or dungeons filled with respawning mobs you have a
mission or a quest that you go on, following step by step the quest
until you finish.  At the end you're rewarded with a new level or
something to that degree, right?

How is this really different than an experience system?  You go out,
you kill a bunch of things, you accomplish something (becasue
killing 150,000 goblins for your next level *is* an accomplishment)
and you get your level.

Let's take a recent MMO for example, City of Heroes.  CoH has
contacts you can talk to who give you missions.  These missions have
stories behind them to drive them and the story arcs they're a part
of.  You head to a warehouse or an office building or a secret
underground labratory, you defeat the minions, you rescue the
hostage, you defeat the boss and recover the artifact.  Then you
return to your contact who rewards you (often) with more experience
or maybe an enhancement to your powers and (often) another mission.

So is it grinding?  Certainly, but it's *mission* grinding.  Which I
think is what you're describing as well.  The focus goes to the
missions on your plate and you become more interested in working
your way through them than you do working through the level you're
in.

So why get rid of the xp point at all?  Why not leave it in and
those who want to grind in the more "traditional" sense can, while
those who want to mission grind can do it that way to?

Of course this is ignoring what's involved in creating that many
different unique missions and quests.  Not that I think it can't or
shouldn't be done.  I'm not any kind of a professional designer but
I have to imagine there's a good amount of time and money not to
make mention of the effort involved in creating *so* many different
missions and quests as well as testing and retesting all of them.

Anyway just my thoughts.  I'm not bashing the idea, just playing up
one side of it a little.

- Brian
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