[MUD-Dev] Removing the almighty experience point...

[Matt Mihaly]

HRose wrote:
> Matt Mihaly wrote:

>> I'm not arguing there are good implications to quests. I'm just
>> asking why killing a mob to do a quest to get your desired result
>> (xp) is a good reason but killing a mob to get xp is not. If I
>> want xp, then I have a good reason (my desire) to use whatever
>> the most efficient method of obtaining xp is.

> Because the desired result is what makes mmorpgs boring as hell
> and pointless. Camping and grinding aren't mechanics that do good
> to a player or a designer.

Why don't they do good to a player? Everquest is all about the
grind, in a very single-minded kind of way, and it's quite
popular. Is everybody playing Everquest an idiot that's out of touch
with what he/she finds entertaining? I don't think so.

Doing quests to get xp to get higher levels is still a grind. You've
just added an extra step. The problem, if you want to call it one (I
don't, as I believe the population of current games clearly
illustrates that most players like the grind, consciously or
unconsciously), is that the current games offer largely one measure
of achievement, and that measure is just a number to reach by adding
to it incrementally. That apparently appeals to many players. It
doesn't appeal to me, and our MMORPGs are designed to make the grind
essentially optional. You can get to a 'playable' (in terms of not
being shut out of anything) level in probably a reasonably short
amount of time, and then you can choose what you want to do. Want to
get involved in politics? Want to spend time defending the forests?
Want to practice PvP combat in the hopes of becoming an expert? Want
to become a bookie? Roleplay? Just sit around and play chess?

My point is that this is an issue that MMORPGs solved well over a
decade ago. The problem is that most players -want- a grind, whether
they know it or not. Obviating the grind requires, in my opinion,
adding in enough of a free-form element that the very players you
are trying to please will be turned off. For example, roleplaying is
a grindless activity that is far more interesting, in my opinion,
than bashing monsters. It's got literally endless variety to it,
it's got drama, it arouses strong, substantive emotions, etc. And
yet, the vast majority of players, who say they want all the things
roleplaying gives, will not roleplay beyond some lame "these" and
"thous". Same with PvP. Most players don't want challenge. They want
to just win 99% of the time. Thus, the grind.

--matt
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