[MUD-Dev] Removing the almighty experience point...

[Sean Kelly]

"Matt Mihaly" <matt at ironrealms.com> wrote:
> Bloo wrote:

>> That's one way to look at it.  Another is that people will put up
>> with a lot to sort of 'play' something online that is escapist
>> with other people from the convenience of their homes.  In that
>> way, the grind is something tolerated rather than desired.

>> And the lack of grind-free options that are entertaining is
>> another factor.

> This doesn't make sense. If the problem with grind-free options is
> that they're not entertaining, and if grinds aren't entertaining,
> then how are almost pure-grind games like Everquest entertaining
> to these masses of people who are playing it but apparently don't
> like grinds?

Perhaps because EQ represents the best option available?

IMO the current crop of MMORPGs is kind of odd in that it attempts
to map a single-player RPG concept onto a MM world.  In the
single-player realm, the player is typically given a progression of
quests that result in the accomplishment of something important.
Level gain is calculated so the player will be able to meet the
challenges she is meant to face, and so she ends up being a hero of
sorts by the end.  So the challenges presented are meant to be just
that: obstacles that are difficult but surmountable. This technique
works and a lot of people find it appealing.

MMORPGs, however, have all sorts of logistical problems that
single-player games don't, most of which stem from the fact that
they cater to an entire world full of would-be heroes.  The result
is typically a world where a player can become great, but one that
he has no impact on.  And further, greatness is often measured
against the accomplishments (ie. levels) of others, so the most
renowned player is often the one who has spent the most time
playing--there is always a drive to be more and do more simply to
measure up.  And games are "sticky" because players generally don't
want to walk away from all the work they've put into a game and
start all over somewhere else, even if the new games seem more
appealing.  There's something to be said for familiarity.

In some respects I'm interested in seeing how WoW and D&D Online end
up doing, as they both seem a slight evolution from previous
MMORPGs.  Mostly the same old thing, but with a new enough
perspective on some game mechanics that they have an appeal the
older games don't.  I generally don't have the time for MMORPGs any
more, but I'm interested in at least trying these out.

> If it's the other aspects of Everquest that these people are
> finding entertaining, what are they, and why can't they just find
> them elsewhere? There's precious little to EQ besides the grind,
> which should make it exceptionally easy to replace if it's the
> non-grind aspects of the game these players like.

I think this is the "stickiness" I mentioned above.  Or perhaps
because people have friends in game and organizing a mass exodus is
impossible?

>> I think people want to go where other people are.  That may mean
>> putting up with the asinine grind, so be it. That is not evidence
>> of grind-loving.

> But there are lots of places where other people are. You're also
> only really participating with the people on the server you're on,
> which really widens your options in terms of reasonably equivalent
> populations.

True enough, though this suggests that online relationships are
interchangable.  Sure, a player can make friends somewhere else, but
that would mean leaving people behind and trying something new just
for the sake of better game mechanics.  It would be like switching
to a new school just because you didn't like your teacher.  It's no
wonder new MMORPGs have such trouble finding players.

Sean
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