[MUD-Dev] DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...]

[Damien Neil]

On 8/18/05, Sean Howard <squidi at squidi.net> wrote:
> "Damien Neil" <damien.neil at gmail.com> wrote:

> As for the metaplayer, don't confuse the mental processes that go
> on while playing a game. When you are playing a game from third
> person, like Super Mario Bros, you are still NOT Mario.

This just completely flies in the face of everything I've seen.

Nobody says, "Damn, I let Mario fall into that pit."  You say,
"Damn, *I* fell into that pit."  People playing games where they
have direct control over a single character most certainly *do*
identify with that character.  They speak of themselves as if they
and the character are the same entity.  They twist and turn in their
seat as they try to make their game avatar dodge attacks.

> Quick looks work fine for me. I can tell you plenty about a game
> from a screenshot. As for the social landscape, I just said that
> Will Wright himself came in an molested us wearing clown make-up
> and chaps - and nothing else. That was the social landscape

That was an event, not an environment.

When I lived in Pasadena, some years ago, a creepy man tried to pick
me up while I was walking to the local Blockbuster to return a
video.=20 If I had been visiting Pasadena for a day and run into
that man, I might have thought that life there consisted of a
constant stream of creepy men on streetcorners making unwelcome
propositions.  I'd have been wrong.

>> (story of IRC snipped for brevity).

> You just explained right there what the problem and the solution
> was. It's the size of the community. You think that kicking a
> bully was what made it work? It was the fact that you guys knew
> each other because there were only a few regulars. If there were
> thousands of you, it would be a VERY different story. Not to
> mention a rather confusing chatroom.

I'm sorry, but I simply can't connect this response to what I said.

"Kicking a bully was what made it work"?  Huh?  Nobody kicked any
bullies.  That's the *point* of that anecdote.  The available social
tools created an environment in which "playground bully" was a
possible role--one which wouldn't have been as possible with
different tools.

If there had been no moderation at all, people wouldn't have felt
the need to suck up to the bully, because he'd have had no power.
If there had been persistent moderation, another moderator would
have removed him from power and possibly banned him.  (Or he'd have
been the only moderator, and most of the people would have moved to
another channel.)

This isn't a complaint about the situation--I found it amusing at
the time--but an example of how available tools can craft social
environments.

>> If the kick command had permanently banned people rather than
>> transiently removing them, people would have been less inclined
>> to use it to flex their power.

> If you believe this, I've got some swampland to sell you.

I have used innumerable computer mediated communications systems.
The only one I've ever used which had a transient kick command was
IRC. The only one where people habitually kicked each other without
the intent of permanently banning was IRC.  This is not a
coincidence! The transient and relatively harmless nature of the
command--and it's complete worthlessness for actually banning
troublemakers--results in it being used in a completely different
fashion than a permanent ban command.

> If you read the webcomics Penny Arcade or PvP, you'll see that
> there already are metaguilds - they have more members than one, or
> even half a dozen, guilds could find. And the members are at war
> with each other and are, in general, have dominated those
> particular servers to the detriment to the other players on them.

The lack of tools for metaguild creation in the game means that
organization of such entities is far more clumsy than it need be,
and more importantly is restricted to people with an out-of-game
connection and communications mechanism such as PA or PvPO.

As you say, metaguild membership is a great benefit to people.  The
lousy in-game social tools prevents the vast majority of players
from taking advantage of this benefit.

               - Damien
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