[MUD-Dev2] What is agame?(again)was:[Excellentcommentary on Vanguard's diplomacy system]

[John Buehler]

Dave Scheffer write:

> "John Buehler" <johnbue at msn.com> wrote:
>
> > Dave Scheffer writes:
> >
> >> Why can't the town overlord agent detect when Pl4teD3wd's "Garb
> >> Sum" falls below a certain "accepted" threshold, that player's
> >> reputation is accordingly affected/persisted by the town
> >> overlord agent, and the NPC's/player share a common
> >> "mark of cain" indicator so that Pl4teD3wd is openly mocked in
> >> the square by NPCs who can refuse service or even bumrush
> >> him out of town with threats of violence/perma-death if he
> >> returns?  Why is it Bonehead and Pl4teD2wd can repeatedly crash
> >> the Tavern with no real justice that follows them around the
> >> world other than shades of glowy red stuff when it's pretty
> >> clear justice needs a mechanic that can kick in even
> >> when those "aberrant" players log off.
> >
> > Feel free to pursue those mechanics of in-context penalties.  I think
> > you'llfind that it's very much like any form of security.  Counter and
> > response.Counter and response.  You will continue to try to herd the
> > players into amainstream behavior and they will continue to try to work
> > around anyrestrictions you place on them.  The whole process is
> > complicated by wantingto provide entertainment to your mainstream
> > players.  When you play thesecurity game, you may end up compromising
> > that mainstream entertainment.
>
> I'm not outlining a monolithic rulebase applied universally across
> thegamescape.  Just the opposite.  I'm identifying very basic game
> mechanicsthat can be used differently by different rulebase effect area
> agents.
>
> Nor am I focused on punishing players who insist on flouting a
> specificapplication of a rulebase.  This relates to the "framing"
> tactics firstraised by Raph:  when I have players that think it is great
> fun to organizea flamedance of naked Rubber Chicken-gripping characters
> they'll gravitateto the regional/contextual rulebase agent that makes
> that sort of thing fun.Appreciative NPCs might gather, applaud or even
> throw perishable flowers.When I have players that want to disrupt other
> players with the sameflamedance behavior they'll be in scope of rulebase
> agents that discourageit, where eventually those disruptive players
> would not even be allowed backinto the effect area.

I'm not sure how this is different from a monolithic rulebase.  It's
finer-grained, but it still relies on being able to penalize players
throughtheir characters.  That produces an arms race from the players
who insist ondoing the chicken dance in the non-chicken dance part of
town.  The gamewants to discourage them from doing it and the players
want to do it.  Aconflict of agendas exists.

> Your concern for devs getting stuck in a adversarial "arms race" with
> adisruptive demographic is certainly well taken.  I agree that they
> shouldnot either.  As the old George Carlin joke goes, "hey you didn't
> say Icouldn't sing STANDING NEXT to the dinner table".  The idea is not
> to getsidetracked adding more explicit constraining rules.  The rulebase
> effectarea simply needs to respond to any form of singing during
> dinnertime withinhearing of the family.  A particularly constrictive
> effect area means NPCsopenly react adversely to the players both
> immediately and into somedeterminate future, to the point where that
> player simply cannot movethrough that area unmolested or even enter that
> area anymore.

What about players who enjoy the fact that they can elicit that reaction
from the NPCs by singing?  It's just a different way of playing the
game. As many players like to say, "If you didn't want me doing it, why
did you put it into the game?"

JB