[MUD-Dev2] [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point...

[Caliban Darklock]

On 7/31/07, Tom Hudson <hudson at alumni.unc.edu> wrote:
> On 7/30/07, Caliban Darklock <cdarklock at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Ten level 1 characters get together and gang up on some level 8 mobs.
> > Can they use the resulting level 8 experience to skip levels 2 through
> > 8 and go directly to level 9?
>
> In the original proposal, they'd have earned level 2 - but the work
> they'd done would make it easier to get up to level 8. If they kept
> doing level 8 tasks

But they haven't earned any level 2 experience. You're going to take
the level 8 experience they just earned and make them waste it on
level 2? That's not fair.

> > If you say "no, they can't"... well, that's not fair. I beat a bunch
> > of level eight mobs. If I were level 8, I would be level 9. But
> > instead, you're going to make me stay on level 1? That's a bug.
>
> Only if you beat a bunch of level 8 mobs AND did 7 other level-8 tasks.

That would be beating the "bunch" of level eight mobs, said "bunch"
being sufficient to number N tasks where N is the number necessary to
progress from level 8 to level 9. That's why I said "If I were level
8, I would be level 9." Whatever nitpicky little technical issue you'd
like to pull out of your hat and claim you can't get from level 8 to
level 9 just by beating mobs, it's irrelevant. When you divide all the
experience into separate types, the expectation of the player is that
if he collects all the pieces of level 9, he has earned level 9. If
you instead award him level 2, that's a bug.

> So then when you earned levels 2 and 3, your stats would still say
> "Level 9"? That's pretty misleading, and doesn't give much of a sense
> of advancement.

I disagree. If I earn level 9 when I'm level 1, I get a massive sense
of advancement. And I don't think it's particularly misleading to
advertise that I've earned the level I have, indeed, earned.

The ability to skip parts of the game that are not fun is a feature.

> You're getting at a slightly different advancement method here, I
> think.

Aren't we talking about ways to substantially improve the methods of
advancement in games by radically rethinking our assumptions?

Why does level 1 have to be followed by level 2?

Why does level 9 have to be preceded by level 8?

What is a level, anyway?

To my way of thinking, a level is a collection of abilities and skills
which have been wrapped up together for convenience. It's just a
package. Take any skill-based system, you can wrap up a set of skills
and call them a "class" with each "level" being a standard set of
skill increases. When you drop down to skill-based, you're abandoning
the player to create his own class, which he will do to his own
advantage. Levels are how you insist and enforce that certain balances
are maintained.