[MUD-Dev2] [MUD-Dev] [REPOST] Griefing

[John Buehler]

Dana V. Baldwin writes:
> John Buehler wrote:
> > Try out the trial of Eve Online and find out how a well-conceived PvP
> > game works.  There are no solo PvP griefers preying on towns because
> > the game doesn't support that play style.  The game channels players
> > into taking out their aggressions in acts of declared war between
> > player corporations who control regions of space.
> >
>
> There certainly were when I was playing. Gate camping does happen and
> the big guys do kill off the little guys in that game when the little
> guys first start to venture out of safe space.
>
> This might be less of an issue when you aren't a noob with no clan in
> the starting space but it does indeed happen.
>
> Granted EVE is one of the best implementations of non "twitch (read
> player skill)" based PvP. The clan v clan thing works very nice for
> those who are into that sort of thing. It is very un-friendly to those
> who don't.

Gate camping in low security space isn't really the same thing as town
camping in an MMO.

A town camper can pick off level 1 characters because those level 1
characters have to leave the safety of the town guards if they ever want
to
achieve level 2.  In Eve, a character can gain every skill in the game
without leaving the safety of the town guards.  The guarded area is half
the
size of the game world.

Does gate camping exist?  Yes.  Does outright griefing happen even where
there are guards?  Yes.  But griefing in Eve is clearly not catered to
as it
is in MMOs that have both PvP and levels.  As you said in another
thread,
"Unregulated PvP and level based character progression just don't mix
well
together."

Your comment about Eve being unfriendly to those uninterested in
group-versus-group gameplay surprised me.  If Eve didn't include low
security space, the game would still be perfectly enjoyable.  I have no
intention of joining in the corporate wars.  I just want to play with
the
industry side of the game and support my corporation.  In turn, I may
gain
access to spots in the lawless space that have been made safe for people
like me.

The game certainly doesn't cater to solo players who want to run around
in
low security space (something of a vindication of their design decisions
to
not support griefing, actually).  But solo players have all of Empire
space
to play in.  I wouldn't call that "unfriendly".

As a further aside, this is a variation of that whole like-minded player
thing I've been ranting about recently.  ALL players can operate in high
security space under the watchful eyes of the Empire police.  That's the
MMO
area.  Like-minded players can go to a different area if they want to
play
by different rules.  In Eve's case, that is group PvP with certain other
rule changes relative to Empire space.

There are lots of ways of letting like-minded players get together.

JB