[MUD-Dev2] To Level or Not to Level

[Michael Chui]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Jeffrey Kesselman <jeffpk at gmail.com>wrote:

> i have a postulate...
>
> People hate leveling.  They hate it in large part because we as game
> developers make it unpleasant to do.  There is a reason its called a
> "grind"
> and not a "picnick among the flowers."
>
> Ive actually been considering a model for a game where characters never
> level.  They spring fully formed from the mold as what the player wants to
> play.  There is some "progression" in finding gear but its minor.  if the
> player gets tired of this character, fine, go create a different one.
>
> This actually is NOT out of line with the rends  in the past 10 years or so
> in pen and paper gaming.  Point based systems tend to be much less
> experience oriented then the old class and level systems.
>
> When you ask 'what is the purpose of leveling" its an interesting question.
> I know the purpose in a pen and paper campaign-- it simulates the dramatic
> arc of a hero's journey from a nobody to an all important somebody.
>
> But onlien? i think its basically got the perverse job of holding the
> players back and making them suffer to get to your content and thats about
> it.  It has an economic prupose in slowing down the consumption of that
> content, but if we can moe the game away from game-maker driven content,
> that would also solve the problem.
>
> (Im not literally suggesting player created content.  IMHo thats a
> hail-mary
> play of the highest order.  Rather i am thinking of games built form simple
> interlocked dynamic systems that effectively create content in response to
> the players' actions within them.)
>

You might not be literally suggesting player-created content, but it's
probably not a coincidence that the OP referenced City of Heroes. You know,
the guys who put in a Mission Architect for UGC quests?

I don't know CoH well enough (I don't play or follow it, which made the
Architect thing a blindside for me) to give any useful commentary, but I
think this lead dev and yourself are on the same line of thinking.



> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM, cruise <cruise at casual-tempest.net> wrote:
>
> > Jeffrey Kesselman wrote:
> > > They arent really eliminating leveling.
> > >
> > > SKing has been possible, since very early in the games life.
> >
> > Indeed, but it's one step closer to levels not mattering at all -
> > content will not be level-gated anymore apart from PvP and one top-level
> > raid.
> >
> > Fundamentally, what does a level for? Is it simply a measure of
> > character ability, or does it serve a purpose as something to reach for?
> > These are the discussions that have gone back and forth on this list
> > many a time, but now one of those reasons has been drastically neutered
> > - there is very little to reach for when all content is available to
> > anyone who teams.
> >
> > I think it will be interesting to see what effects this has on the
> > playerbase, if any. I have a suspicion those who enjoyed Co* in the
> > first place where those (warning: sweeping generalisation approaching)
> > who placed less emphasis on gaining levels over simply being the
> character.
> >
> > So far the feedback has been overwhelmingly in favour, though once
> > people get to actually play it that may change...
> >
> >
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>
>
>
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-- 
-Michael Chui