[MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...

[Marian Griffith]

On Thu 19 Jun, clawrenc at cup.hp.com wrote:

> In <3.0.2.32.19970617205157.00b4c158 at mail.tenetwork.com>, on 06/18/97 
>    at 09:26 PM, Jeff Kesselman <jeffk at tenetwork.com> said:

> >I'm all for having certain forces i na game that are ALWAYS beyond
> >the abilities of the characters to challenge and win

> I don't disagree.  I am very against having forces in a game which the
> players are not able to influence.  

> Should teh force be manifested in a dragon which represents such force
> and physical power that no living thing in the land can withstand its
> assault then what about:

I'm not sure if players should be able to affect dragons,  or creatures
of a similar power like major demons, to a significant effect. At least
the effort involved in that should be such that it does not seem worth-
wile to even a group of players.

>   Building dragon impenetrable fortresses?

This is a bit cheap (in my opinion).  Why should players be able to do
this. And why should they even want to?  Even if they do,  how can the
players build something that an animal the size and strength of a dra-
gon can't tear down again.

>   Building fortresses only penetrable at great expense and effort to
> the dragon (ie they don't bother)?

This makes more sense. Except that you can expect that a dragon would
be intrigued by the structure and may look for way to crack the shell
that encases so much tasty morsels?

>   Emptying an entire region of dragon prey animals (all humans, deer,
> etc etc) and keeping it empty for a significant period.  Will not the
> dragons begin to hunt elsewhere and avoid that area as "useless"?

Possibly, but they probably will first start hunting for those guards
and hunters that work to keep the region empty.  One could wonder why
players would want to make this effort?  And if the game should be so
detailed that this is truly possible.

> Then there is simple trickery.  

Which is (again in my opinion) the better course with dragons. Stealth
around a dragon has a much better chance of success.

>   Bubba locates the dragon's lair.

*grin* If he is smart he marks the spot carefully on his map  and runs
as fast as he can in the other direction.  Likely all possible loot in
the entire region is located under the watchfull eye of the dragon and
most game has been hunted close to extinction, which leaves bubba as a
prime afternoon snack for said dragon.

>   Bubba waits for the dragon to leave its lair.
>   Bubba walls over the entrance to the lair with himself inside.

If he can do that he probably would also be able to knock the dragon
unconscious?

>   Bubba has digs a tunnel to somewhere else far away.
>   Bubba gets the dragon's treasure and lives the fine life.

*grin* Of course the dragon would let him get away with carrying
a couple of tons of gold through a tunnel?

> Conquering can and should occassionally be a problem.  Manipulation
> should always be possible if difficult.

What it really is that I liked about the dragon example is  that it
represents the fact that the players can't become so powerfull that
like on must muds or ad&d games there eventually is no challenge to
them.  If the world is full of creatures,  and events (!), that can
overpower even a small army of the most powerfull players then they
can't afford to become complacent.  If players can hope to outsmart
creatures or not is secondary to that I think.
Besides creatures like dragons, demons and demi-gods  that are much
too strong for players to fight head-on,  there may also be natural
disasters that may kill a players:  avalanches, floodings, tornados
or fires can be a real risk that a player.  They have a lot in com-
mon with dragons.  Like that a player can't survive a fight but may
try to escape a confrontation. And that there is little direct gain
from a confrontation.

Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey