[MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD

[Adam Wiggins]

[Jeff K:]
> At 12:36 PM 6/21/97 PST8PDT, you wrote:
> >[Jeff K:]
> >> At 08:18 PM 6/20/97 PST8PDT,Adam W. wrote:
> >> >can't figure out how to interact with the game.  Ours is particularly
> >> >bad since the game world is so open-ended (no easy-to-define goals from
> >> >the moment you start playing) and so complex (no simple list of
> special-case
> >> >rules as with a pen and paper RPG).
> >> 
> >> I rather object to this characterization.. if you had said "AD&D" or "an
> >> OLD pen and paper RPG" I might have agreed.
> >> I suggest you look at Hero system, and its child the new Fusion system.
> >
> >Well, let me state it this way - as a player of a pen and paper RPG, I
> >always know what the rules are, even if they aren't special-case stuff.
> >In a mud you have no idea - you push button X and Y occurs, you push button
> >Z and A occurs, except much more complex.  Eventually you may figure out
> 
> This is totally dependant on your Judge in a pen and paper game.
> A bad judge I agree.
> A mediocre judge, this is mostly true.
> A good to great judge this statement is totally false.  the "rules" merely
> provide a STRUCTURE for describing and quantifying the infinite
> possabilities in the judge's mind.  Where a rule system is so limiting it
> cannot fit the concept, new rules are created by the judge.  That's how D&D
> grew into AD&D -- judge created extensions. Hero system is no more
> constricting as a set of laws then, say, the laws of physics are in our
> world (lexx actually). it is merely a notational system for quantifying the
> effects as they pertain to other people and hero has the built in
> infinite-extension capabilities of "advantages'a and 'disadvantages" that
> re made up by the judge.

Still not my point.  The point is that players can *know*, from the start,
all the (set) rules which govern the world.  Players can't look at the
source code for the mud (usually).  This is the difference to which I
refer.
If you mean rules that the DM just pulls out of their ass, then this isn't
a rule at all.  More below.

> I'd say you played pen and paper with very uninventive people.  I defy you
> to describe to me something on a  MUD I could not run as an adventure just
> about ANY FRP system I chose.

If you're just making things up whenever you like, then of course you
can do whatever.  The only way to get something that the players won't
know every nuance of is to annex a completely new part of the game.
What I like about muds is that I don't *know* how the magic system
works.  I make a mage, and I learn some spells, but for the most part,
its workings are still a mystery to me.  I probably don't even know
what all the spells I can learn are.  Even once I manage to become a master
mage, I don't know the *exact* rules which govern what I'm doing.  I
may notice that phases of the moon influence my ability to spellcast, and
even get a pretty good idea of exactly how they influence it, but I will
never know the 'real' rules, only their general effect.
This is perfectly achievable in P&P game...you just have to invent your
own to be sure that the players know nothing about it.  Possibly the
closest a P&P game comes to achieving this is Ars Magica, since you can
make your own spells.  But this still smacks strongly of 'whatever comes
out of the DM's ass' to me.  A computer has the advantage of being
able to track vastly more data in realtime than a DM could, and of executing
a set of very complex rules perfectly every time, without any humans (except
the creators) needing to know exactly how it works.  This is, of course,
also its weakness, since it cannot diverge from these rules.