[MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)

[Marian Griffith]

On Sun 02 Nov, Sauron wrote:

I wrote :)

> > I don't know about coding things but it can't be so hard to have a
> > realistic way to arrest people. It happens all the time of course?
> > You just need some way for your police to restrain people. Things
> > like shackles and handcuffs?

> coding is how you program the game to do whatever you want to do. i
> really think it would be very inefficient to have to have a guard hold
> and restrain a person, apply handcuffs and take them away.

Why? Police seems to do it daily without problems.

> my belief is
> that have the guards be set a high lvl (assuming that you are using
> levels), have them fight using the ic combat system (so that you can
> possibly defeat one, but not a whole mob), have some way to restrain the
> mage from escaping during this combat (ie hold person or have them
> "surrounded"), and when they "die", instead of being killed are
> teleported to the dungeon w/ and explanation like "the guards beat you
> until you fall unconscious. you awake alone in a dungeon cell." what
> actually happened can easily be inferred.

I would say -this- is overly complicated.  Why not simply have the
guards order you to surrender.  If you do so you're handcuffed and
brought to the police station. Or if you refuse you fight them for
real.  They'll still arrest you if you are unconscious rather than
dead at the end of the fight. Of course if theres no more guard to
fight you can walk away.

> > >   Mages present an especially problimatic scenario, as
> > > they have the option of teleporting beyond the reach of the law...

> > Why? If the police employs mages they have the same option. Or they can
> > prevent the gate from opening, or from closing behind the mage. There's
> > any number of things you can do to solve this I would think?

> but then you're being hypocritical and really endangering the suspension
> of disbelief. it becomes unreal (in the sense that realism is unto the
> game itself) because you've outlawed mages in a city, but here you are
> using other mages to keep them out.

Hypocritical? I can't quite remember how this dicussion started but
I do not believe it included outlawing magic in the city.  Somebody
just complained  that it was easy to control ordinary fighters that
entered the city by forcing them to abandon their weapons, but that
this obviously  would not work for mages.  Or at least the original
idea was that it would be impossible to do ICly.

[crime snipped]

> > Why not put a criminal on the wanted list if they run off this way. Then
> > they must disguise themselves on return or risk being recognised and ar-
> > rested next time they connect?

> this is somewhat feasible, though of course the guards would already
> know that
> Bubba is an outlaw, but you have to find some way to get players to risk
> their lives to capture him. a high reward works sometimes, but not
> always, especially w/ players not interested in money.

*shrug* Not sure if I would care to encourage players to play the
role of bounty hunters, but I would guess the principles stay the
same regardless.

> > > More realistically, just force _characters_ to remain in-game even while
> > > the players are away...It becomes difficult to balance on a PK mud, but
> > > managible if you allow players to create scripts and defences to use in
> > > place of human input.

> > That's a possibility also even though it would make it impossible for
> > somebody like me to play your game.

> why? seriously you either place your character in a "safe room" where
> they cant be attacked (if the game allows such rooms) or you leave your
> connection active (their are numerous programs out there that will
> reconnect for you if you get dumped) and it is not very hard to program
> a simple script that will run when attacked or respond by saying run a
> room, hide, when X enters, attack X, run, etc.

You're joking right? I can't afford to leave my computer connected all
day even if I wanted to. And no, things like those automatic reactions
may be simple for you but I wouldn't know how to begin. Not to mention
that I have no interest in finding out because I do not enjoy the type
of game it implies.

> > Of course nothing would prevent the patrol guards to send for a mage or
> > two to disable your magical defenses.  If the city allows such defenses
> > in town in the first place. Or the mage would place a magical dome over
> > your house that prevents you from leaving?

> again the problem of employing mages being hypocritical.

...

> see usenet thread.

I have looked for that on the mails I received today but I can't find
it. Am I getting all the posts for this mail list?

> > This is always true when dealing with a mage.  But it is questionable
> > if the magic should be instantaneous.  That is how it works now but I
> > guess it would not be that hard to have powerfull or difficult spells
> > take time to be casted. Just make them a succession of lesser spells,
> > as has been suggested before (I believe with casting fireballs).

> it would probably be easier to code a delay based on spellcasting stats
> (whatever they may be) vs. the difficulty of the spell. so you cast,
> wait X, game checks to make sure you are still unoccupied, cast spell.

*smile* whatever suits you :)

> > > 2.)  If player manages to get their character to its house, it has to
> > > be designed to prevent determined PC's from entering (protect PC's from
> > > afk PK), so a NPC won't fair all that much better.

> > Just hire a better mage?

> see above. and on a sidenote, who says there are any mages for hire?
> you're assuming this is always true, it could be considered "evil" for a
> mage to help other ppl for money, especially if they are similar to a
> priest in that they gain their powers by serving their god.

In which case you have to find a pries who is willing to banish the
"evil" protections. I am not particularly interested in the details
just in the general principle. The question was that if mages could
make themselves invulnerable to attacks from ordinary fighters, how
could to be brought to justice. This already implies that magic can
be practiced in that particular town and it also suggest that there
could be a mage or two employed by the town,  to protect it against
other mages. In any remotely realistic setting mages too need a job
to earn their food, house and clothing.

> > > Basically, I'd have to create a near-omniscient, near-omnipresent, and
> > > near-omnipotent police force protecting this anti-violence zone, but such
> > > a force would by its nature overrun and control the entire mud-world to
> > > impose its doctrine of non-violence everywhere.  While this could be an
> > > interesting twist to the mud's theme, its not what I'm looking for.

> > I don't understand how you arrive at this conclusion but no doubt I am
> > missing something.

> if you figure that the guards are able to overcome all of the above
> problems, this is a natural conclusion.

*shrug* not to me, but I admit not being particularly logical.

Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey