[MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.

[Richard Woolcock]

Derrick Jones wrote:

[snip]
> > Hmmm well I coded books, but they were only used for spells.  You write spells
> > on the pages (with a pen), then insert the pages into the book, flick through
> > the book until you find the spell you want, and then cast it.  The spells
> > are written in a funny sort of semi-code format, and you can get some quite
> > entertaining results (including the ability to 'chain' spells, but having a
> > spell automatically cast the spell on the next page, with optional parameters).
> 
> Nifty.  I might hide a few spells in libraries as well...Mostly useless
> stuff, or even spells that are dangerous (to the caster) to cast.  There
> was a list of completely useless spells posted here that could provide a
> good deal of comic relief.
> On a side note, how do you handle players learning/casting spells from one
> another's spellbooks?  Do you require a certain proficiency level (other
> spells known, exp level, casting skills minimums, etc) to learn a new
> spell?

Well it was on the old version of my mud that I used the books - my current
version has the code, but it isn't used atm (bugs and game balance problems).  
People could be either 'Vampire', 'Werewolf', 'Mage', 'Demon' or 'Highlander' 
(Blah, I've moved to a theme now).  Each 'class' had its advantages, and players 
would start as mortals then later 'join' a class.  Mages were weak physically,
but had access to about a hundred spells as well as the spell books.  Each
mage would belong to a 'colour' school (red, blue, green, yellow or purple),
which corresponded to a magic type.  Players could only cast a spell from
their own 'school' of colour, although there were some problems with mages
of different schools teaming up, combining their magic to boost themselves
to sickening levels.  There was no 'in game' proficiency to researching a
new spell, but the players themselves (rather than the characters) would
generally become more proficient in spell creation through experience.  The
early spells were the odd 'zap em' spell and minor teleporting, whilst the
later spells were mana-efficiency-optimised chain spells (a number of spells
- usually offensive - linked together to cast each other) which could tear
players apart from half way around the mud.  Although no better than a mortal
in combat, mages were a rare but highly desirable class - often referred to
as 'being like an immortal, only much much weaker'.  If you caught a mage 
unprepared, s/he was as good as dead, but mages made very bad enemies (one
mage once killed every player online over a couple of days, because I wouldn't
give his girlfriend a vampire clan leadership position).  It was that sort of
attitude (from most of the players) which helped persuade me that a rule-less
free-for-all PK mud just didn't work (it also started becoming a chore to run
the thing, having to constantly put up with extremely obnoxious players).

Anyhow I am getting WAY off topic here...sorry ;)  The point is, you can do
some interesting things with books.

[snip]
> > I'm sure the novalty would soon wear off.  However I do think mistrel's
> > would be a nice touch (for some reason I keep thinking of Robin's Minstrels
> > in Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail).
> 
> Yeah, they were a hoot.  To recreate them, you'd have to set the players
> minstals singing whenever the player took a good whuppin.

You could even have minstrels follow players around - depending on the 
outcome of a battle, the song might vary...thus it could be about X defeating
Y, Y defeating X, one fleeing from the other, etc...so you COULD have...

   The minstrel sings 'Brave Sir Robin ran away, bravely ran away, away...'

   The minstrel sings 'When the beastly fido reared its ugly head,'

   The minstrel sings 'he bravely turned his tail and fled'

   The minstrel sings 'Brave, brave, brave, Sir Robin'

You could even have a similar reaction coded into town citizens...

   The baker says 'Look out, Sir Robin, its a beastly fido!'
   The baker roles on the floor with laughter.

> Maybe use a town crier instead.  "The town crier exclaims 'Let it be known
> that on this day Joe defeated the mighty troll, releasing the princess,
> Latvia'." would be heard in the streets.  And for several months
> afterwards traveling bards will add to their collection of stories how Joe
> singlehandedly slew an army of trolls with his mighty sword FireBreether.
> Joe would then most likely be approached with a book deal on his life
> story, which would make a wonderful addition to the library...

Who would write the story out of interest?

> >Perhaps you could store the
> > most powerful mob that player killed (assuming the mob was over a certain
> > level), along with a couple of details - and make the rest up.  After all,
> > Mistrel's of 'old days' did just that.  Thus when you barely escaped with
> > your life after defeating a troll and looting his lair, you might hear (a
> > couple of days later) a mistrel singing about how you butched a dozen of
> > the beasts while underarmed, then rescued a fair maiden from their lair...
> 
> Yes, yes.  The main problem with minstrels is the fact that their medium
> is music, something that loses its 'life' without sound.  It might just be
> me (I usually catch myself skipping over songs in books I'm reading,
> sometimes missing important details in the story doing so.), but music
> loses its edge in text.  Poetry might work however...

Yes, good point...however poetry would be a bit trickier to code.

[snip]
> > The real problem is the assumption that new players will come on at the same
> > time.  Most often, you'll get a slow but steady trickle of new players.
> 
> Good point.  But this creates an ongoing problem.  People are in constant
> search of people of the same approximate ability for groups.  This mainly
> comes from rapid character advancement.  If you advance characters too
> fast, then small differences in online time can result in major
> differences in ability.  You therefore either have to solo it, or wait
> until the guy behind you 'catches up' enough to be able to survive the
> same places you can.  Large player bases can hide these problems, but most
> muds don't inherit much of a player base.

Hmmm dunno what else I can suggest.

[snip]
> > > or those creature who attack only for food.  Undead creatures hate
> > > everything living, and will attack regardless of victem's stregnth
> > > (Although an intelligent vampire might choose no to attack Buffy the
> > > Vampire Slayer, unless Buffy's already hurt and the vampire has a chance
> >
> > Hmmm not the same as my vampires then ;)
> Not really too different.  Your description of vampires sets them to be
> much stronger than normal(mortal) men.  Concider an intelligent vampire
> walking up to a Zeus or some other particularly strong being.

I'm not sure that I understand the comparison.  In my mud, most players
ARE the vampires, and the mobs (and new players) mortals.  Strength is
dependant on each particular vampire - some are no stronger than a mortal,
but possess other special powers (such as mind reading, mind control,
shapeshifting, and so on).  Thus while one vampire might beat a mob up
before feeding, another might command them to go to sleep, or even drain
their blood over a distance (if they have access to some of the rare
disciplines).

> > > of winning.).  A T-Rex just sees 100-200 pound of fresh USDA grade A
> > > human.
> >
> > So called 'Intelligent' mobs should go for the weakest opponent.
> 
> Yes, or bypass an opponent completely if its too tough for them.  Usually,
> the problem of who to attack occurs when a group tries to swarm a single
> target (or group vs group).  I try to weight danger level vs difficulty
> level when picking an opponent.  Usually my 'intelligent' mobs try to pick
> out the mages in groups, as they can't cast spells while defending
> themselves (can't concentrate while dodging swords/claws), plus an ignored
> mage can _really_ pack a whallop.  After the (obvious) mages are gone,
> mobs then try to even the odds a bit by picking off the weaker players,
> then concentrate lastly on the well-protected fighter-types.

That must make group fighting tactics somewhat unusual.  Do you have combat
formations, to allow players to protect their mages?

[snip]
> > > Dunno, the temple is probably the first place to get sacked when the town
> > > gets invaded.
> > Perhaps it is protected by Divine power?  Maybe the swordsmans guild would
> > be the best place to hide.  Regardless, I wouldn't enjoy logging on to a new
> > mud, only to find I couldn't leave the temple for an hour because the town
> > was under attack.
> 
> True.  Seems that by having weak players hide in the temple/guildroom
> you're restricting them even more than a single newbie zone.  Perhaps
> sliding down into the sewers under the town will give weaker players both
> an escape route and a place to explore while a battle rages overhead.
> Maybe even suggesting that the weaker players take advantage of the giants
> activities to raid the (momentarily abandoned) giant's keep.  Trick here
> is to provide the weak characters an escape (without too much loss of
> face) without obviously herding them.  Perhaps a wide-scale evacuation of
> the town's non-combatants/unconnected PCs thru the sewers will give weaker
> players an idea of how to escape the fray.

Hmmm yes, you could even code in special mobs to appear during battles...
something like:

An orc charges in from the south.
An orc leaps towards you, its sword upraised!
(combat would normally commence at this point, but because you're a newbie...)
A cityguard charges in from the west, knocking the orc from its feet.
The cityguard yells 'Quickly, go three west, then down!  I'll hold off the orc!'
The cityguard leaps towards the orc, his sword upraised!
The cityguard slashes the orc with his sword, drawing blood.
The orc swings its sword at the cityguard, but misses.
...etc.

Thus basically, every time you would set the mob to be fighting the newbie,
you 'bring in' a cityguard to fight the mob and shout directions to the
newbie.  I'm sure there are a number of possible problems with this, but
it does strike me as being a reasonable solution - not only do the newbies
get spared, but they also get to take place in the battle (if only as a
spectator).  If you're a really soft-hearted imp, you could even have
cityguards rushing in to help badly hurt non-newbies...and if you were
worried about the number of cityguards, you could either have 'fudged'
fights where the cityguards can only hold off the orcs (not kill them)
or else have the cityguards break off the fight as soon as the newbie
is safe.  Perhaps if the newbie insists on just wandering around and
relying on cityguards, an orc might bash them on the head, at which
point a cityguard rushes in, and carries them (stunned) to safety.

[snip]
> > I dislike the whole concept of 'safe' areas... Surely there must be some
> > better alternative?  Admittedly, preventing undead from entering the
> > Temple of Light would be quite reasonable, but to simply have an area in
> > which people cannot fight just doesn't seem quite right.
> 
> Me too.  I started a thread a while ago about how to enforce a
> non-violence law within certain towns.  The gist of the outcome was that I
> needed to put an NPC police force in place and provide reprocussions for
> violating the law and being caught.  Hopefully, as most players will
> desire such areas to enjoy themselves, an unwritten 'rule' will be made
> and avoiding violence within the area will become the acceptible norm.
> 
> By 'safe' I meant areas not populated by aggressively violent NPCs.  A
> player can well get into a fight there, but the disposition of the locals
> is such that the player can walk around the area freely without worrying
> about things constantly jumping out and trying to eat them.  Midgaard on
> the old DIKUs was a 'safe' zone on this token, as was most of the mudworld
> on many of the derived muds.

Hmmm but how would you avoid safe rooms in a PK mud?

KaVir.