[MUD-Dev] games gender bias (Re: Affecting the world)

[Marian Griffith]

On Sun 05 Oct, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ola_Fosheim_Gr=F8stad?= wrote:

> Marian Griffith <gryphon at iaehv.nl> wrote:

> >Note that this study was after the negative behaviour. It did not say
> >anything  about the increased attention of the males  for the females
> >in those studies where the ratio was something like 95-5 and how this
> >was perceived (and handled)  by the females.  Also it was pointed out
> >that the situation was more or less identical  in those studies  that
> >were strongly female dominated.

> Maybe so, but I suspect that those 5% female (or male) in those
> studies have a lot of selfconfidence, which helps regarding negative
> behaviour from the others.

Well no, the result of that study was that, contrary to the expectation,
negative behaviour towards women occured far less in those classes where
they were an obvious minority than in those classes where they not imme-
diately apparent in minority. My personal experience on muds is somewhat
similar.  In games that have hardly any female players  they are treated
which much more acceptance  than in games  where a sizable proportion of
the players is female.

> I still think it is unhealthy (and less
> interesting) with less than 25% of any gender in an organization (from
> my own experience in boy scout groups, school and army). I believe
> balance between genders creates a more vibrant environment with more
> variety in general.

This is true without a doubt. I would not enjoy playing a game where
there were hardly any male players to be found. At least not all the
time.

>  As women are in minority on the net one should
> try to address their interests when creating virtual worlds, simply
> because the men will come anyway.

If you put it this way I can find no fault with your reasoning. I guess
I was overreacting to your earlier phrasing which read, to me, that you
wanted to attract females to a game so the males would find interest in
it as well. -That- kind of attraction is most unwelcome.

> I do agree that to obtain the same
> "attraction level" with genderneurtral activities is the best
> solution, but I'm not totally convinced that that will be enough in
> the long term.

On the contrary, for a game to be attractive to both male and female
players the only solution in the long run is that it is neutral with
respect to gender.  Currently muds are strongly geared  towards male
interests.  There are also games  that are less male dominated (e.g.
pern mush).  Currently there is no game (!) that I am aware off that
is strongly female oriented.

> I figured one could get the last slice of the female
> games market by announcing that the product has been carefully
> designed for (and preferably by) women.  However, I guess one first
> has to ESTABLISH that market as it is next to nonexisting.  I believe
> that will happen when computers stop being a "boy-thing", which I hope
> mandatory computer classes in school will take care of real soon.

I'm afraid that's not what is going to happen. Mandatory math classes
are not going to change girl's attitudes  towards that either.  It is
all a matter of presentation and of expectations.

> I'm not sure what the current status of the computer is among kids of
> today?  Profecy of the century: the day will come when most women do
> more with computers than wordprocessing and email.

What's wrong with that? It's about all I use my computer for nowadays.

> I'm still trying to figure out how one should design a good
> singleplayer game for average girls/women. What are your favourite
> games? (I'm not saying you are average!) If Creatures had been more
> playable then I guess that theme would have constituted a good
> gamecomponent for a mud, "take care of your pet, breed new puppies"
> type of gameplay (for both genders).  Another activity which I assume
> would be more popular with females is "design your own cloths for your
> avatar".

Believe it or not, not all women enjoy to design clothing :) I do agree
however that it would be nice to be able to walk around on a mud less
ridiculously in a mishmash of weirdly named armour.  A game where you
could purchase your own style of clothing would be fun,  but hardly a
reason to play it if it was the only thing to do on that game. What I
think  is the least appealing aspect of muds  is the mindless killing
that takes place as the -only- thing to do.  The kill monsters to get
gold and experience to get equipment and skills  to kill even more of
those monsters.

What I strongly believe would be a major improvement over games today
is if it would be possible to play them without actually having to be
'good' at them. I think that is the reason why roleplaying games like
pernmush are much more popular with women. You can, provided you know
the story they are based on,  start playing there almost immediately.
Playing a game for a longer time  does not improve your power or your
stats or anything,  you just know more people there to rp with but it
does not matter if you are new or old on that game.

For that reason also I enjoyed Myst very much even if it drove me crazy
with all those puzzles I couldn't solve. I still occasionally wander a-
round in that game and wonder how they created all that.  It was a game
you could play  as soon as you started it  and you did not exactly have
to be good at it or anything to play it.  Even if you did not solve the
puzzles it was still fun to look around at new things.

Creatures would probably be fun too but not exclusively. I believe that
those games are equally popular with boys and girls.

> >> Hmm..  Not really.  Those two are the most used successful recepies I
> >> believe. (+ the platform (mario) style thing, but I suspect that one isn't
> >> biased towards one specific gender.)

> >How many males play that kind of games? Does it really matter? ;)

> In commercial productions, yes!  With huge upfront expenses you want
> that 90% of the market if you can get it.  I guess only about 1 out of
> 10 games break even and that the top 10 take most of the
> profit. *shrug*

I admit not being terribly interested in computer games. They look all
the same to me and none too appealing.

> >> >(1) there's a well known phrase decency disallows me to use.

> Your game may be popular in Holland, but I've never heard of that one,
> the biggest what?  Gun?

Oh you know, you just want to make me write it...

Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey