[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers

[quzah]

-----Original Message-----
From: Damion Schubert <zjiria at texas.net>
To: mud-dev at kanga.nu <mud-dev at kanga.nu>
Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 8:20 PM
Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brandon J. Rickman <ashes at pc4.zennet.com>


>Continuing my reign as the resident devil's advocate.  Note,
>I'm not claiming I have any answers either. =)
>
>Tangential note: on most MUDs, fighters aren't the problem.  At
>least my experience has found that mages and thieves tend
>to be the best (worst) player killers.  Do we take the fun out of
>these skills too? =)


I found this a bit humerous, as these are my two favourite types
of characters to play. So it would seem, that there is at least
some truth to the matter... in my early days, I too did a small
share of player killing.


>Okay, in this mythical world you've created, what do players do for fun?
>I'd hate to spend years working on a fantasy game, only to find that
>newbies log off because the goblins don't drop any gold (a real problem
>that afflicted UO on launch, I might add).
>

I am curious to this also. For in my experience, sadly I must say I
am only used to diku, and haven't ventured into LP and such, (now I
don't mud, so it's rather hard to venture out now hmm? :). But I was/am
curious as to what on most role playing types, do the people as a
whole do, if it's not out questing and such.

Do we simulate mending the property, making your food, doing your
laundry and such. (Yes, I admit, to make it more realistic, we/I
would like to try my hand at implementing some of that.) But to keep
everyone [the masses who bore with washing their clothes] entertained,
what could you do?

Persons aspiring to be a warrior, could partake in contests of skill,
and such. Even tailors could have great bazarrs (forgive my horrible
spelling please.) with other shop keepers, to see who has the finest
wares. But how frequent would the tournaments/trade shows ;) be?

>>Anyone who to tries really really hard to be a fighter can eventually
>>develop into a very skilled and dangerous player.  One hopes that the time
>>and effort required will also make him a sophisticated player as well.
>
>
>One would hope, but there is a certain class of players who will find ways
>to do it faster than you expect, and then even perma-death has no meaning.
>You could concievably slow the advancement curve to a period of weeks
>per level but then you kill the fun of adventuring for any casual gamer.

To mirror the above, I and my companion, when she and I used to mud
together, had a tendency to (a) make our first character, wander around
and get the feel for the game. Then later (b) make our second, who as
a whole, kicked the crap out of our earlier versions, because we knew
our way around, found the little tricks [Conch mud, black kings bishop
pawn, 100exp always ;) ][Pirate's mud (used to be Jolly Rogger?) The
stupid hobgoblins/orc/troll cave gave insane experience for low levels]
and so on and so forth...

>>If all it takes to be a fighter is knowing the right commands and a small
>>loan from the fighting collective then I don't think there is much chance
>>of encouraging any variety of non-combat activity.
>
>
>The best PKers can take the most complex fighting system you throw
>at them, and then combine them with other strategies seamlessly (i.e.
>where to run to heal when wounded, which magic wands can be used
>during combat, etc).  Augmenting this fact is the fact that most of these
>people are also the ones that understand macro programs and other
>helpers.  This creates a huge gap in between the advanced player and
>the casual one.

(Finding out that you can charm the town healer and make it walk
 around healing you, or prevent it from repoping by leading it off
 to a no exit room...)

>The interesting thing about long advancement schemes is that, by their
>nature, they favor the players who (a) have been online the longest,
>(b) suffered the fewest defeats, and (c) who know more about the ins
>and outs of the game.  This clearly favors the PKers in the long run.
>
>>The easiest route to learning how to fight may well be by becoming a
>>tailor.  If a tailor suffers from attacks and extortion he would quickly
>>gain the resolve to fight back if he chose.  (But then there is more
>>potential for drama, for unexpected twists and character development.)
>
>
>If it really was the 'easiest route' of advancement (unclear what that
>means),
>then all it would mean is that your PKers would all start off as tailors.
>
>--damion

Again, I must agree with the above. When trying to make a game where
combat is not the main feature, I think it will be very difficult to
prevent as a whole, the game wreckers from doing what they prefer to
do.
-Q-