[MUD-Dev] Re: Levelless MUDs

[Katrina McClelan]

On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Holly Sommer wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, jacob langthorn wrote:
> 
> > Okay, call me crazy, but I don't think in 6 years of mud coding
> > that I've ever created a piece of equipment that was "level" based.
> 
> I wouldn't say crazy, just "someone who has never built on a Diku." Are 
> Richard Woolcock and I the only Diku people here? Sometimes it sure feels 
> like it.
> 

Well, I am half from that background.  I started with a SillyMud which
somewhere in its history was diku.  I currently use a framework I started
from scratch which is more or less "what diku SHOULD have been" (I quote
this because it is opinion, but at the very least its cleaner than diku).
However in this case Silly didn't have level restrictions on equipment,
nor does my code.  I have seen muds that do this however.

> Well, sure. Objects which are heavy require a higher strength to even 
> wield. There are other restrictions which can be added: racial, 
> class-based, alignment-based, etc.
> 

Well, strength, if the difference between required and actual is great
enough, ok.  It's sort of artificial to say "you're a mage, you can't use
a sword or else the god of equipment restriction is going to destroy you
with a lightning bolt"...  That said I do it anyway just because its
easier to handle, and if I coded the way around it, mages wouldn't use
swords anyway because they'd suck so bad with them that to them the dagger
would be better.

> > but I've never said, hey, if you're under level 15 you 
> > can't use this.  Having level based eq seems to be a crazy idea to me.  
> 
> I don't think it's crazy, it's just somewhat artificial, but it works, 
> for certain game settings. Those which rely heavily on eq for individual 
> effectiveness in survival have a need for level-based eq restriction.
> 

I posted this in usenet, but *if* I wanted to be more "realistic", I'd
just make characters ineffective with eq instead of barred from using it.
If level happened to be a restriction, then a level 3 character would
fumble around trying to wield a level 10 sword.  Even still, level more so
than class is rather artificial.  Levels are artificial to begin with.
Does a character who has 50000 experience points really have an advantage
over one with 49999?  Well in alot of level systems yes.  Actually
experience points are artificial too, making levels based on experience
points even more artificial, and finally restrictions based on levels
really really artificial.  That said, we're talking about game worlds with
magic and fire breathing dragons, so reality is a defined concept anyway,
so who really cares so long as it is fun?  (BTW: any numerical system that
a computer can handle thrown at the problem of character advancement is
going to be in ways artificial.  It's impossible to accurately enumerate
learning.  Particularly when physical talent plays a role.  Some things
are less artificial than others, but even skill trees and such are in some
ways artificial.)

> > A 50 year old man doesn't have as much hope of doing what a 10-20 year 
> > old would with a broadsword.
> 
> Depends. What race are you takling about? A 10-20 year old dwarf would be 
> wet behind the ears, and a 50-year-old dwarf would be a strapping young 
> buck ;)
> 

and a 10-20 year elf would be a toddler, while a 50 year old elf would be
an adolecent.  :)

-Kat