[MUD-Dev] Character persistance, was Family, was characters per account

Thu Apr 20 17:08:40 CEST 2000

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--- Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services <Paul.Schwanz at east.sun.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Daniel wrote:
> >p.s. I actually like the idea (or rather 'Mark Wells' idea,
> >ahem) of character persistence. I'd really like to build
> >it into a future game. Heavens, though, not for realism's
> >sake (I vaguely recall this being his principal motivation),
> >but rather that it increases attachment to the world and
> >opens up some interesting gameplay avenues. And yes, you
> >would need some sophisticated AI/scripting to make it work,=20
> >making it a pretty scary implementation proposition.

> As to interesting gameplay avenues opened, imagine trying to
> play out Tolkien's masterpiece without character persistence.
> The bearer of the ring would _have_ to be an NPC, since a PC
> could wink out of existence at the drop of a hat.  What then
> happens to the ring?  Does it just drop to the ground to be
> picked up by whomever is nearby?  And what of the fellowship?
> Now Aragorn is here...now he is not.  Poor Frodo will never
> know whom he can trust to be there to defend him against the
> black riders...or black rider...or no riders...where'd the
> rider's go?  Hehe.

Character persistance does not require the same player's persistance. =
This kind
of persistance is an issue of priorities. Persistance of this sort seems =
to be
more important on the MUSHes that I frequent than the MUDs I've sampled =
in the
past.

This is somewhat due to what MUSHes have to engage the players, which =
is, other
players, since many MUSHes are tabletop/pen-and-pencil RPGs converted to =
an
online form and usually lack items like coded puzzles, mobiles, and =
experience
gains through combat.

The traditional concept for characters required a registration and =
approval
process. Players were expected to put together a detailed and coherent
character which would be examined and placed within a group because of =
some
hook in the character's stats or background.

The popular shift in newer MUSHes (particularly WoD) is Open Character
Generation, where a player can make any number of starting level =
characters,
completely crafted by them to their own specifications.

 The first Open CharGen - Dark Metal - was a reaction to an earlier, =
more
traditional MUSH that had failed, an experiment to see what would happen =
with
the opposite rules. Or in the words of "Emily Treason", one of the =
founders:=20

"In the beginning, there was Masquerade, and the god of Masquerade =
decided for
reasons I won't get into to close the mush. And the ex-building wizard =
of MasqI
did go unto Thor, the ex-site admin and did say unto him, "Hey, we got a =
mush
concept, you got a site?" And Thor did say, "Yea, verily," and thus was
Amarynth born. And it was to be what all the players claimed they wanted =
--
quality-centered, backgrounds-checked, all characters approved, and so =
forth
and so on.=20

And after a few months, the staff did look around and say, "Those bloody =
little
buggers lied -- they don't want staff to dictate quality. They don't =
want
control."=20

After starting at USD in the Academic Computing department graduate lab =
in
spring of 1994, DM moved the next year (after the university =
administration
opted to take a momentarily dim view of mushes) to Fiend in North =
Carolina, and
then in late 1996 to Anubis in Boston.
The mush remains in a state of flux and tinkering, the better to provide =
a
quality role-playing cyberpunk-cross-gothic punk venue for the players. =
After a
general overhaul, chargen is once more fully open to the public -- =
unlike other
'open chargen' WoDs, there are no race quotas, and you don't need to =
submit an
application to get the character set up." -Emily Treason, 1997 (from
http://www.ennui.net/darkmetal/intro.html)=20
=20

If the success of the experiment is measured by the size of the player =
base,
then Dark Metal is an enormous success. It attracts 130+ players a night =
and
has spawned many imitators. The newest MUSHes are extending the concept =
of Open
Chargen even further in the desperate attempt to attract new players by
throwing every character race/type/class that they can think of, =
regardless of
whether they mesh well or not. Throwing in every published race is =
distracting
enough without including non-WW races such as Highlander-style =
Immortals. I'm
wondering if this race glut is common elsewhere or merely part of a =
published
system. What is considered to be an ideal number of races?

In an Open Chargen system, more races seem to heighten one of the main =
problems
inherent in the concept. If you make the character with only your ideas =
in
mind, then the character starts out in the game isolated from IC =
connections.
Sure, the staffer can work to wedge the character in somewhere, but you =
still
end up with a surplus of hacker/supermodel/ninjas or =
homeless/runway/orphaned
children with hearts of gold and a lack of people in support positions =
playing
paramedics or journalists or politicians.=20

Depending on the MU*, there are differing amounts of support that =
players learn
to expect from the staff. I've been on MUSHes where players called for =
staff
judges at the first sign of combat or conflict, which causes more work =
for
staffers and tends to slow down play and possibly encourage a less bold
mindset, it can really maintain a meta-story well. On the other hand, =
Dark
Metal's laissez faire attitude extends out of the chargen and expects =
the
players to handle their own conflicts and combats as well as develop =
their own
plots and guilds and areas for approval. The staffers are primarily =
called in
for rule clarifications, over the top ideas, and heated name calling. =
Leaving
much of the action up to the players can be chaotic, have an inefficient =
amount
of overlap in player actions, and lack somewhat in a directed =
meta-story, but
the freedom encourages player interaction if they wish to achieve their =
goals
and brings about the unexpected in interesting ways.

It seems there is a third way to handle character persistence. Keep the
characters persistant, even if the players aren't. Firan MUX uses a =
roster
system of pre-made characters that already have detailed connections and
backgrounds to the players and the theme. The most important and =
involved
characters, Level 1 Features, often require an application, while the =
Level 2
Companions and Level 3 Citizens are immediately accessible. A newbie has =
a
fully fleshed out and connected character within moments of logging on. =
No
Chargen required. The idea is that the players are more like actors in a =
grand
play, instead of mere extensions of themselves. Not too useful for a pay =
site,
but the characters end up going back on the roster after 10 days or so =
idle.

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--- Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services =
<<A=20
href=3D"mailto:Paul.Schwanz at east.sun.com">Paul.Schwanz at east.sun.com</A>&g=
t;=20
wrote:<BR>> <BR>> Daniel wrote:<BR>> >p.s. I actually like =
the idea=20
(or rather 'Mark Wells' idea,<BR>> >ahem) of character =
persistence. I'd=20
really like to build<BR>> >it into a future game. Heavens, though, =
not for=20
realism's<BR>> >sake (I vaguely recall this being his principal=20
motivation),<BR>> >but rather that it increases attachment to the =
world=20
and<BR>> >opens up some interesting gameplay avenues. And yes, =
you<BR>>=20
>would need some sophisticated AI/scripting to make it work, <BR>> =

>making it a pretty scary implementation proposition.<BR><BR>> As =
to=20
interesting gameplay avenues opened, imagine trying to<BR>> play out=20
Tolkien's masterpiece without character persistence.<BR>> The bearer =
of the=20
ring would _have_ to be an NPC, since a PC<BR>> could wink out of =
existence=20
at the drop of a hat.  What then<BR>> happens to the ring?  =
Does it=20
just drop to the ground to be<BR>> picked up by whomever is =
nearby?  And=20
what of the fellowship?<BR>> Now Aragorn is here...now he is =
not.  Poor=20
Frodo will never<BR>> know whom he can trust to be there to defend =
him=20
against the<BR>> black riders...or black rider...or no =
riders...where'd=20
the<BR>> rider's go?  Hehe.<BR><BR>Character persistance does =
not=20
require the same player's persistance. This kind<BR>of persistance is an =
issue=20
of priorities. Persistance of this sort seems to be<BR>more important on =
the=20
MUSHes that I frequent than the MUDs I've sampled in =
the<BR>past.<BR><BR>This is=20
somewhat due to what MUSHes have to engage the players, which is,=20
other<BR>players, since many MUSHes are tabletop/pen-and-pencil RPGs =
converted=20
to an<BR>online form and usually lack items like coded puzzles, mobiles, =
and=20
experience<BR>gains through combat.<BR><BR>The traditional concept for=20
characters required a registration and approval<BR>process. Players were =

expected to put together a detailed and coherent<BR>character which =
would be=20
examined and placed within a group because of some<BR>hook in the =
character's=20
stats or background.<BR><BR>The popular shift in newer MUSHes =
(particularly WoD)=20
is Open Character<BR>Generation, where a player can make any number of =
starting=20
level characters,<BR>completely crafted by them to their own=20
specifications.<BR><BR> The first Open CharGen - Dark Metal - was a =

reaction to an earlier, more<BR>traditional MUSH that had failed, an =
experiment=20
to see what would happen with<BR>the opposite rules. Or in the words of =
"Emily=20
Treason", one of the founders: <BR><BR>"In the beginning, there was =
Masquerade,=20
and the god of Masquerade decided for<BR>reasons I won't get into to =
close the=20
mush. And the ex-building wizard of MasqI<BR>did go unto Thor, the =
ex-site admin=20
and did say unto him, "Hey, we got a mush<BR>concept, you got a site?" =
And Thor=20
did say, "Yea, verily," and thus was<BR>Amarynth born. And it was to be =
what all=20
the players claimed they wanted --<BR>quality-centered, =
backgrounds-checked, all=20
characters approved, and so forth<BR>and so on. <BR><BR>And after a few =
months,=20
the staff did look around and say, "Those bloody little<BR>buggers lied =
-- they=20
don't want staff to dictate quality. They don't want<BR>control." =
<BR><BR>After=20
starting at USD in the Academic Computing department graduate lab =
in<BR>spring=20
of 1994, DM moved the next year (after the university =
administration<BR>opted to=20
take a momentarily dim view of mushes) to Fiend in North Carolina, =
and<BR>then=20
in late 1996 to Anubis in Boston.<BR>The mush remains in a state of flux =
and=20
tinkering, the better to provide a<BR>quality role-playing=20
cyberpunk-cross-gothic punk venue for the players. After a<BR>general =
overhaul,=20
chargen is once more fully open to the public -- unlike other<BR>'open =
chargen'=20
WoDs, there are no race quotas, and you don't need to submit =
an<BR>application=20
to get the character set up." -Emily Treason, 1997 (from<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.ennui.net/darkmetal/intro.html">http://www.ennui.net/d=
arkmetal/intro.html</A>)=20
<BR> <BR><BR>If the success of the experiment is measured by the =
size of=20
the player base,<BR>then Dark Metal is an enormous success. It attracts =
130+=20
players a night and<BR>has spawned many imitators. The newest MUSHes are =

extending the concept of Open Chargen even further in the desperate =
attempt=20
to attract new players by throwing every character race/type/class =
that they=20
can think of, regardless of whether they mesh well or not. Throwing =
in every=20
published race is distracting enough without including non-WW races =
such as=20
Highlander-style Immortals. I'm wondering if this race glut is common =

elsewhere or merely part of a published system. What is considered to =
be an=20
ideal number of races? In an Open Chargen system, more races seem =
to=20
heighten one of the main problems inherent in the concept. If you =
make the=20
character with only your ideas in mind, then the character starts out =
in the=20
game isolated from IC connections. Sure, the staffer can work to =
wedge the=20
character in somewhere, but you still end up with a surplus of=20
hacker/supermodel/ninjas or homeless/runway/orphaned children with =
hearts of=20
gold and a lack of people in support positions playing paramedics or=20
journalists or politicians. Depending on the MU*, there are =
differing=20
amounts of support that players learn to expect from the staff. I've =
been on=20
MUSHes where players called for staff judges at the first sign of =
combat or=20
conflict, which causes more work for staffers and tends to slow down =
play and=20
possibly encourage a less bold mindset, it can really maintain a =
meta-story=20
well. On the other hand, Dark Metal's laissez faire attitude extends =
out of=20
the chargen and expects the players to handle their own conflicts and =
combats=20
as well as develop their own plots and guilds and areas for approval. =
The=20
staffers are primarily called in for rule clarifications, over the =
top ideas,=20
and heated name calling. Leaving much of the action up to the players =
can be=20
chaotic, have an inefficient amount of overlap in player actions, and =
lack=20
somewhat in a directed meta-story, but the freedom encourages player=20
interaction if they wish to achieve their goals and brings about the=20
unexpected in interesting ways. It seems there is a third way to =
handle=20
character persistence. Keep the characters persistant, even if the =
players=20
aren't. Firan MUX uses a roster system of pre-made characters that =
already=20
have detailed connections and backgrounds to the players and the =
theme. The=20
most important and involved characters, Level 1 Features, often =
require an=20
application, while the Level 2 Companions and Level 3 Citizens are=20
immediately accessible. A newbie has a fully fleshed out and =
connected=20
character within moments of logging on. No Chargen required. The idea =
is that=20
the players are more like actors in a grand play, instead of mere =
extensions=20
of themselves. Not too useful for a pay site, but the characters end =
up going=20
back on the roster after 10 days or so=20
idle. </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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