[MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking

[Travis S. Casey]

On Fri, 28 Apr 2000, Lee Sheldon wrote:
> On Thursday, April 27, Travis Casey wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Lee Sheldon wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Raph Koster wrote:

[I've redone the quoting a bit to make all this easier to read]

>>>>> Yes; although players are not stupid, and will quickly
>>>>> realize that a rat that happens to look like an orc king is
>>>>> still a rat.

>>>> Is this actually true?  Or if it is true, does it matter?  I'm
>>>> sure that most players are quite aware that the rat they are
>>>> bashing is not a rat at all, but just a collection of bytes
>>>> on a computer several thousand miles away from them, and is
>>>> just dressed up to look like a rat.  Why should it be any
>>>> different to dress it up as an orc?

>>> I disagree.  The entire point is to get the player to willingly
>>> suspend her disbelief to the point where she "forgets" about bytes 
>>> and computers, and engages that foul creature in a contest of 
>>> strength and courage.

>>> So it -should- matter, shouldn't it?

>> From my own experience, I'd say it does matter.  Playing paper 
>> D&D, I don't feel belittled by having my 1st-level PC beaten up by
>> orcs, goblins, and such.  On muds where my newbie PC is beaten up 
>> by squirrels, rats, etc., I *do* feel belittled.

>> To me, it seems ridiculous -- no real squirrel or rat is likely to 
>> inflict significant harm on a normal, healthy, awake & aware adult 
>> human even *without* armor and weapons.  To have my PC be at 
>> significant risk taking on a squirrel while wearing armor seems to
>> be a declaration that my PC is no more physically competent than a 
>> toddler.  To me, that feels insulting.

> I didn't snip because this is reasonably short, and I'm reasonably confused.
> I was answering your question "Or if it is true, does it matter?" with an
> opinion that it matters for the suspension of disbelief to think of it as an
> orc OR a squirrel, NOT bytes on a computer.  I wasn't arguing the relative
> merits of orc maiming vs. squirrel squashing.  So are we agreeing, or
> disagreeing, or ships passing in the night?

It's not my question; someone else posted the message you replied to.  I
was following up to your message to answer/amplify the question you asked
at the end -- "So it -should- matter, shouldn't it?"  I said that it does
matter to me, and explained why it does.

I think I didn't make part of my point quite clear, though.  As you say,
we should want players to suspend their disbelief and think of their
opponents as *being* rats, squirrels, orcs, or whatever, rather than 
just some data being pumped by a program and a random number generator.
Having a character who is supposed to be an adult human in armor be
seriously hurt in a fight with a squirrel is just so ridiculous that it
flat-out breaks my suspension of disbelief.  It makes it extremely 
apparent that this is just a game where the "monsters" have utterly
arbitrary abilities.

Fighting goblins or orcs doesn't do this, since it makes sense that an
armed & armored goblin or orc should be a reasonably difficult foe, who
could actually seriously hurt or kill a human.

I agree with you that suspension of disbelief is what makes a game or a
story come alive.  Without the ability to get beyond our knowledge that
"it's just bytes" or "it's just words someone wrote", it's impossible to
emotionally connect with a character in a story or game.  Putting in
things like killer squirrels jars readers or players out of their
disbelief, making it harder to make such a connection.

(I'll note that comedy often uses such implausible things specifically
*to* prevent such an emotional connection.  If we felt emotionally
connected to the heroes in, say, Monty Python and the Holy Grail, we'd be
concerned about them when they fought things, which would prevent us from
being able to laugh at them.  If the fight with the killer rabbit were 
with, say, an axe-wielding troll instead, it wouldn't seem nearly as 
funny, even if all the dialog and action were otherwise the same.)

--
       |\      _,,,---,,_        Travis S. Casey  <efindel at io.com>
 ZZzz  /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_   No one agrees with me.  Not even me.
      |,4-  ) )-,_..;\ (  `'-'
     '---''(_/--'  `-'_) 




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