[MUD-Dev] trade skill idea

[Koster]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mud-dev-admin at kanga.nu 
> [mailto:mud-dev-admin at kanga.nu]On Behalf Of
> Josh Olson
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:16 PM
> To: mud-dev at kanga.nu
> Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] trade skill idea
> 
> 
> Son of a...
> 
> I had a lengthy reply typed up when my computer lost power.  Pathetic
> reconstruction of the original follows below:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koster, Raph" <rkoster at verant.com>


> > If making bread was the point of the game, and there were dozens of
> grains,
> > many sorts of ovens, many possible bread shapes, and lots of
> > variables--sure, what the heck. It could get especially 
> challenging if
> there
> > were managing multiple ovens and bakeries at once. Not that I am
> suggesting
> > making this game--I am just saying that if you break down 
> the games here,
> > and examine them topologically (what is the SHAPE of the 
> gameplay), you'll
> > find extreme similarities.
> 
> This is a fine example of overextending scope.  Do you 
> suppose that the
> manager of a chain of bakeries is the same person who grinds 
> grain, mixes
> dough, packages loaves, etc. etc. in each bakery?  Almost 
> certainly not -
> there isn't enough time in the day to run the 
> minute-to-minute operations of
> each store as well as manage the corporate aspects of the 
> entire chain.

Well, in RollerCoaster Tycoon, the guy who designs the rollercoaster IS the
guy who sets the prices at the snack stand and also the guy who manages the
entire park. Games often mess with realistic scope in the name of fun. :)

> You can either have a game about baking bread, or you can 
> have a game about
> managing bakeries - you can't have it both ways and maintain 
> an interesting
> level of complexity in both aspects. 

Sure you can. IMHO.

> The more detailed the simulation, the
> tighter your scope must be.  Corollary: the broader your 
> scope, the more details must be glossed over.

Details have nothing to do with fun; the rate and quantity of important
chocies does. And I am pretty sure that you could abstract both making of
bread and managing a bakery into a set of say, 10 important variables total
to consider and come up with an interesting game. :)

> > But I'd argue that even this is icing on the cake. The REAL 
> attractant to
> > RCT or Sims is the stuff that has fairly little impact on gameplay.
> Painting
> > wall colors and making new skins for your Sims, now THAT 
> was fun--and it's
> > what the fan community is out there going nuts for.
> 
> I'd argue that the painting and skinning would not be so attractive if the
> underlying game didn't have a lot of merit in the first place.  If I just
> wanted to play SimDressup, I'd buy a Barbie game.

I bet that half this list could write a bot to maximize the Sims' fairly
simple variable management in less than a day or two. It's NOT a complex
game, and in fact, every gamer I know (as opposed to non-gamers who tride
it) found the game aspcet of it laughably simplistic. Even non-gamers (with
whom the title appears to have more staying power) focus more on the story
creation aspects of it than the resource management. I suspect that if The
Sims had been done with uh, oil wells (or baking!) that it would NOT have
done very well. No offense to Will, whom I admire and like, but the
underlying management game in The Sims is not particularly impressive. From
talking with him, I don't think it was the central emphasis of the project,
and I think Mike (you out there, Mike?) can probabyl confirm that...

> > I'll say it again: I believe that a game about doing nothing more than
> > interior decorating has a bigger potential audience than a game about
going
> > on a grand adventure and saving the day.
> 
> Perhaps, but I don't think it would capture interest for as long.  Marking
> your environment and displaying your originality is much more appealing an
> an already-interesting context.

Pretty big presupposition there--to have an interesting context, you have to
include a grand adventure? Sorry, but to that I say pfft. :)

-Raph



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