[MUD-Dev] PvP Systems

[John Buehler]

Matt Mihaly writes:

> On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, John Buehler wrote:

>> I completely disregard the 'insult' scenario.  If someone fires a
>> verbal volley at you, you get to fire a verbal volley back at them.
>> This is entirely consistent with the PvP approach that I'm after.
>> If you want to pound on them and they have their PvP settings set
>> to 'no', then you get to additionally ridicule them for being a
>> gutless coward.  And you can still invite them to meet you later
>> after they change their PvP setting to a level that the two of you
>> can agree on.  If they refuse, then you can really laugh at them.

> That may be well and good in monster bashing games like Everquest,
> where all players are assumed to be basically 'equal' but in a game
> with a stronger social structure, where there are superiors and
> inferiors, I think it's a bit poor to let the newbie peasant run his
> mouth off at the king without any consequences whatsoever. Given the
> relatively limited rewards available to in-game leaders (ie, they
> aren't going to get driven to work everyday or get to stay in swank
> hotels while on trips, etc), respect of other players becomes one of
> the most important rewards, and allowing open belittling of the
> leaders tends to undermine that respect and make the leader look
> incompetent and weak. This isn't true in a society lead by leaders
> it doesn't know (such as the modern nation-state), but in a smaller
> community where there are more personal ties and personal respect at
> stake, such a thing is counter-productive to effective leadership,
> not to mention counter-productive to ensuring that player-leaders
> get what they are most after: respect and some power over their
> fellow players.

What can I say except that I disagree with you.  If I'm following a
leader, and the leader is insulted by someone and that leader decides
to pound on the insulter, I'm not going to be very inclined to follow
that leader any longer.  Frankly, I consider the idea of pounding on
hecklers a really screwy idea.

You make mention of newbie peasants and kings.  I'm assuming from your
statements that the king is a player.  In a game of my construction,
no player becomes king.  I don't believe in the desireability or
viability of having players assume significant roles in the world
order.  It promotes excessive gaming and gives too much power to
players.  I'm of the opinion that gamemasters are the ones with the
vast majority of the power in the game world.  That must be so in
order to ensure that some coherent form of entertainment is available
to the overall playerbase.

I imagine Disneyworld with the park attendees deciding which rides
will be open, what new rides will be put in and where, etc.  Only the
really hardcore attendees will figure out how to do such things, while
the occasional attendees are left to deal with the consequences of
their actions.  I'd rather leave the park in the hands of Disney
employees, whose job is to ensure that park attendees enjoy
themselves.

As you suggest, I want a game where all players are basically 'equal'
- not unlike the world we live in (that ought to stir up some
pointless discussion).  I'n not after a game world that apportions
power.  I'm after a game world that presents entertaining things to
do.  Those entertaining things cannot include having significant
control over other players - specifically when those other players are
not interested in being controlled.  This is the fundamental tenet of
the PvP switch system that I proposed.

I can imagine players being barons of their own land and such - but
being a baron moves you into a different sphere of influence that
doesn't include your controlling players who are not barons.  You
manage your lands, you enter into court intrigues with other barons
and such.  It's a political form of combat, and the entertainment of
running a barony, possibly permitting other players to go hunting on
your lands, etc.  At no time should a baron be able to rally his NPC
peasants and attack the town containing player characters.  Especially
when it has been stated that that town is a peaceful town.  Players
not interested in conflict hang out there and do peacetime activities.
Having the baron invade is counter to the entertainment structure that
the gamemasters have put in place.

JB

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