[MUD-Dev] Interesting EQ rant (very long quote)

[the_logos at www.achaea.com]

On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, J. Coleman wrote:

> the_logos at www.achaea.com wrote:
  
>>> A spolier site completely derails that type of quest.  You look up
>>> the sword, see where to get it, never learn why it's there or
>>> anything about it, etc.  Your not "doing the quest" at all, which
>>> was the previous point, too, I think: Why even bother to have
>>> quests?  Instead of getting a magic widget by camping a mob (and
>>> never knowing why that mob has the magic widget), then giving it
>>> Joe for a magic sword (without ever knowing why Joe wanted the
>>> magic widget in the first place), why not just stick the sword on
>>> the mob and save all the fluff?

>> Because there is a difference to players between sticking the sword
>> on the mob and getting it via a quest. I'm not going to argue about
>> whether there is a difference because if the vast majority of
>> players think there is, then I'm willing to work on that
>> assumption. It's just simple variety really. I just think it's
>> strange to try and pretend that a player doesn't know something
>> when he does.
 
> I don't speak up much on this list, but I think there is a very
> fundamental difference of perception here I should address.

> While it may very well be strange to pretend that a player doesn't
> know something... you seemingly fail to take into account the fact
> that ther player's *character* *doesn't* know this information. I
> realize that there is considerable blending of the character's and
> player's perceptions, but the quest is for the character, after all.

Why wouldn't the character know? I can just ask another
character. That's what people do. Whether you're worried about
roleplaying or not, it's just silly to me. OOC you can just look it up
on a website. IC your character knows because he can just ask other
people who also know. Whether you're talking about the player or the
character (and I don't really recognize a huge difference), it's silly
to pretend they can't get a piece of information from anywhere but one
source, when there are many sources all around them (other players)
who have or could tell them.
 
> Why is it unreasonable to make the character learn the information,
> even if the player already knows? The player *is not* the
> character. This, in my opinion, is one of the most telling examples
> of RP vs. GoP players available. How many CRPG characters know
> anything about web boards? I'd be perfectly happy to have the
> character remember the secret password *once they know it*, but the
> character still must learn it in the first place.

It doesn't matter to me whether you want to pretend the character and
player are different or not, but how can you know the character
doesn't know something? How do you know he's never overheard this
'secret' information, or that no one has ever told it to him. Your
code doesn't and can't know that. Again, in role or out of role, it's
just making players jump through hoops for the sake of it in my
opinion.

--matt

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