Hiding the Numbers (was Re: [MUD-Dev] Maintaining fiction.)

[Kwon Ekstrom]

From: "Travis Nixon" <tnixon at avalanchesoftware.com>
> From: "Alex Kay" <yak2 at iprimus.com.au>

>> It's interesting. I remember when I started playing EQ and there
>> was alot of talk on whineplay to show all the numbers. I was in
>> favour of this at the time, finding some of the vagueness annoying,
>> and falling into the trap of playing the stats game.

>> After a year or so I tried AC and found the stats overwhelming, it
>> took the numbers game to the extreme. I quickly found I didn't like
>> this much at all and had a new appreciation for Verant's stance on
>> not showing the numbers (which has lately been relaxed it seems,
>> though I 'quit' a few months back).

> I'm on the side of this debate that believes that developers should
> not only show the numbers, but that they should publish their
> mechanics as well.

I'm somewhere in the middle, coming from a text mud background it does
change the circumstances a little.  IMHO the important thing is that
the player can understand the values.  Several muds have used short
phrases to represent number values, which is an approach that seems to
work well.

> And that tangent is marginally related to the original idea which is
> this: If you're going to hide the numbers, hide them.  If you're
> going to show them, show them.  Don't do both, because you just piss
> people off when they can't look at numbers that you've already shown
> them because you're "trying to keep fiction, and hide the numbers
> because seeing the numbers somehow reduces immersiveness" even
> though you've

I agree that if you're going to show information, make it available
for "random" access.

> already shown the same numbers, or shown other numbers that
> obviously lead to being able to determine "hidden" numbers.  (For
> example, in EQ you can determine approximately how many hitpoints a
> monster has by watching how much damage it takes to kill.)

I don't agree with this however.  Any data you show is obviously
directly related with other data which may not be shown (at least in a
well written system).  Some things of course, shouldn't be shown in
light of hidden data, others may be... and often what is hidden from
players shouldn't be.

As a player, I prefer to have as much information as possible, but am
admittedly a power gamer.  As an admin, I understand that some things
should be hidden from the player for the sake of balance.

-- Kwon Ekstrom

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