[MUD-Dev] Player run reputation system

[Sean Kelly]

From: "David Loeser" <daklozar at home.com>
>> From: Koster, Raph >>> On Wed, 23 May 2001, shren wrote:

>>>> Such schemes are prone to mule accounts and false accounts
>>>> voting about how great a guy Joey the pk is.

>>> I'm not an expert on it, but the advogato system,
>>> (www.advogato.com) seems to be fairly immune to these sorts of
>>> troubles.

>> We explored using it on SWG. The problem with it is its
>> purpose. Yes, it succeeds at routing around uh, "enhanced"
>> reputations; someone who is already established in the network
>> and who has multiple sources of information can ascertain which
>> reputations are inflated, which fit with his worldview, etc. What
>> it doesn't do is provide a novice any indicator of who the good
>> and bad nodes are.  So for the purpose of indicating status to
>> people new to the system, it doesn't offer any real help; in
>> fact, to someone with zero trusted referents, everyone looks the
>> same. As this was one of our primary reasons to use a reputation
>> system, we abandoned the idea.

This seems like a difficult decision.  How do you balance "realism"
with what you think will placate the average player.  Personally, as
a player, I wouldn't WANT to log in for the first time and instantly
be able to size-up other players based on game-generated statistics.
It throws the possibility for all sorts of roleplaying right out the
window.  "Wow that guy seems nice but it says here that his
reputation isn't so hot I don't think I'll trust him."  In a
futuristic environment you can rely on things like broadcast media
or computers to disseminate information about criminals, but in a
fantasy setting lines of communication are practically nonexistent
or at least certainly unreliable.  Since SWG fits into the former
category, I guess it could be mapped into some sort of personal
database methaphor -- do a lookup on someone to see whether they're
a wanted criminal... but I think even then it should only indicate
extremes.  The common people only have reputations among those
they've dealt with, as seems to fit the advogato system.  Still, I
suppose you need a system that will keep player complaints to a
minimum.

> It seems to me that a player run reputation system should be based
> on how other people see, or what they think of, an individual.

> Using UO, one example of could be when you are killed by another
> player (PK) and you are presented with the bounty dialog - instead
> of bounties (or in addition to), the (dead) player would be given
> the opportunity to decrease the assailants reputation points.
> This would/could eliminate the rampant voting scheme someone
> mentioned in another post.

The problem with the bounty system being tied to the reputation
system of course becomes, how can you tell the victor was in the
wrong?  Again using UO as an example, the game is a practice in the
bad-guy tricking the good-guy into attacking him.  I can just see
players creating mules to go goad players they hate into killing
them then putting a bounty on that player's head to reduce his
reputation.  Or of course using mules to circumvent the reputation
system and continue to rip off new players.

> If a player run reputation system or any kind of reputation system
> be it NPC based or other should have an effect on ever player in
> the game.  Two players, one a valiant warrior who is well
> respected in much of the land would probably get treated with a
> bit more reverence than a player that is a known murderer.  An
> example (which may not stand up) is the well respected player
> would receive free drinks at the town pub - and the murderer may
> be charged. (Then again, the murderer may get free drinks as well
> :)

This is an excellent idea, and more in line with the kind of
reputation system I would like to see in a game.  I had actually
modeled a fantasy-setting rumor system where NPCs remembered what
they saw and passed information along to other NPCs they met, with
the risk of it being "misinterpreted" (the grapevine idea).  I had
planned to use this both as a reputation system and as a quest tool.
Other bits would have to be added like for an NPC to hail the guards
if it wittnessed a crime, etc.  This would obviously incur a decent
amount of overhead, but it seems feasible for a MUD.  I'm planning
on implementing it in NWN.


Sean

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