[MUD-Dev] Alternatives to PvP for sustainable fiction?

[Matt Mihaly]

On Wed, 13 Jun 2001, Sean Kelly wrote:
> From: "Matt Mihaly" <the_logos at achaea.com>

> As for big cities.  I lived in NYC for quite a while.  Anonymity
> is directly proportional to population density.  People are so
> used to being around each other in NYC that they completely tune
> them out, to the extent that they do things in a crowded subway
> that is normally reserved for the privacy of the home.  If you
> want to talk to people, go to a small town.  There's no better
> place to be ignored than a big city.  Still, I guess the night
> life offers a host of options to socialize.  It's interesting to
> watch how the different social circles overlap, join and drift
> apart... cities are like one big organism.  As for why people are
> attracted to such places however, I'm baffled, but then I'm an
> explorer :)

I like cities because:

  a) The availability of things like restaurants with edible food
  and the relative lack of hicks (at least proportionately compared
  with most small towns).

  b) The anonymity. I'm not interested in being recognized when I
  walk down the street.

I'm an outdoors person, but I could not stand to live in the
sticks. I grew up there and I can't stand what passes for a culture
in the sticks. I too am an explorer, but I'm also a socializer and a
killer.
 
>> Everyone can be a hero and everyone can be an adventurer. It's
>> just a matter of how you look at it. If you are able to look at
>> it from within the context of the world, there are only a couple
>> thousand players on with you, and a whole WORLD of people out
>> there that you're saving from the evil monster hordes (or maybe a
>> whole world of people out there that you're trying to oppress as
>> much as possible. ;)
 
> But what world?  Of the MMORPGs I've played, NPC population is
> limited essentially to shopowners.  I understand that this is to
> keep server load down, but still.  Personally, I can't maintain
> the fiction well enough to believe that there is an invisible
> populace out there that needs me.  Most MMORPGs don't have an
> economy, a government, or a citizenry.  They're playgrounds for
> people to go monster bashing.  Kind of a giant multiplayer
> roguelike.  UO has guilds which I grant are a step in the right
> direction, but it still doesn't have commoners.

Ahh. I have no problem believing in an invisible populace. The
populace of most of the physical world is utterly invisible to me,
yet I believe in them.

 
> When I first heard about how UO was going to have an ecology I
> thought "wow... a band of orcs in the woods will need to find food
> to eat... say that takes them into a nearby village... instant
> quest!"  But for various reasons this never came about.  I'd love
> to see more NPCs in game, a better interaction model, and another
> attempt at an ecology and closed resource system.  It's a definate
> step towards emergent behavior.

It didn't happen because who cares if the dragon acts real. The
dragon is always dead anyway.

 
>> Except that it's not quite so easy. The main problem with
>> describing it as above is that what do you do when one side has
>> been completely defeated? It tends to provide an excellent
>> opportunity for exit for the losing players, and you don't want
>> that.

> True.  But then there's also the possibility of rebellion if the
> ruling group is evil, and the introduction of a new opposition if
> it is not.  Middle Earth was quite peaceful until Sauron started
> gathering his forces (though there were opposing kingdoms).  The
> designers could easily take a hand to make sure that either the
> conflict stays fairly balanced or to create a new one.  And I
> think that even left alone a well-modeled world could support a
> self-styled Alexander for only so long before his nation crumbled.

Middle Earth is a fictional book. These worlds are real. You don't
get to tell players how to act. Further, I can tell you right now
that when designers take a hand, the players discover it and are
_not_ happy about it. Even when the designers don't take a hand, the
losing players often suspect that it was rigged against them. If
they find _any_ evidence that it was, expect a ton of them to leave.

--matt

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