[MUD-Dev] Interesting EQ rant (very long quote)

[Travis Casey]

the_logos at www.achaea.com wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Mar 2001, Travis Casey wrote:
>> <the_logos at www.achaea.com> wrote:

>>> They wrote hint books online because that's what people do in
>>> life. It has nothing to do with computer games. Considering how
>>> into the general open-source movement many people on this list
>>> are, it's amazing to me how many people on this list want to fight
>>> in vain against the spread of information and think 1) it's a good
>>> idea and 2) it's possible.

>> I don't see it as a fight against the spread of information, but
>> rather as a fight against the *use* of that information in certain
>> ways.  In a roleplaying-focused game, it's disconcerting to have a
>> character suddenly show up who acts as if he/she knows everything
>> that a different character did, but is not that character.

> As I've been pointing out though, unless you eliminate communication
> between characters, there is no way for the game to know what a
> character knows. It's not possible without AI far more sophisticated
> than what we have now.

I think you're confusing me with John here -- that, or not thinking
about the fact that there can be more than two points of view on an
issue.  I support John's goal (i.e., of making sure that player
knowledge and character knowledge don't intertwine overmuch), but,
personally, I find his methods to be nearly useless.  They simply
won't work for many situations that I consider important.

>> Personally, I don't care what players *know* (well, actually, the
>> reverse is true.  IMHO, the more the players know about the game,
>> the better).  I just want them to roleplay well enough to *pretend*
>> that they don't know things if their character doesn't know them.

> Sure, I understand your motivation and I fully sympathise with it. I
> don't go as far as John Buehler does, insfar as I do want a world of
> interactive characters, but I'm just suggesting it is a futile
> effort in a MUD of any size.

I'd say it depends on the mud.  My preferred solution to the problem
would be to first screen for roleplayers (through the typical means --
requiring an application to create a character, requiring character
history writeups, etc.).  Second, with that done, I would not have
static, repeatable quests.  Instead, I'd implement a system to
semi-automate the process of creating new "quests" -- as I've talked
about in previous posts.

>> It's not the spread of information that I think is bad -- it's the
>> way in which that information gets used.

> I guess I don't see much of a problem. If I was that worried about
> roleplaying, I wouldn't have repeatable quests, as they are
> ridiculous

Definitely.  However, player selection is important, IMHO, because
there are other things that should not be transferred from character
to character in a high-roleplaying environment, but which there is no
good way to control for.  For example, a new character should not
suddenly be friends with all the same characters that an old character
was friends with -- the new character should instead make friends on
the basis of his/her own personality.

I'll readily admit that this level of player/character separation will
only appeal to a very few people.  Further, there is no good way to
enforce it, even if you had an AI to monitor all communications.
Thus, the only method by which you can even try to get such a level of
separation is by selecting carefully for players who want it.

--
       |\      _,,,---,,_     Travis S. Casey  <efindel at earthlink.net>
 ZZzz  /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_   No one agrees with me.  Not even me.
      |,4-  ) )-,_..;\ (  `'-' 
     '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)
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