[MUD-Dev] A Question on PvP and PK

[Matt Mihaly]

On Fri, 2 Aug 2002 szii at sziisoft.com wrote:
> From: "Matt Mihaly" <the_logos at achaea.com>

>> Yeah, I know, but it's not the same to me at least. Knowing that
>> I'm being treated like a retarded stepchild just to have a chance
>> of competing against someone else isn't at all fun. It's even
>> less fun than being beaten over and over with even resources,
>> because winning just feels cheap and empty, and losing is even
>> worse. =)
 
> See, now this is what bugs me (personal thing.)  People are too
> focused on "I have to have a chance of winning" to even play.  Why
> do you have to win?  Why is losing to a superior player "bad?"

I don't have to win. I have to have a chance of winning, or feel as
if I'm going to have a chance of winning sometime in the forseeable
future. I am not alone in this preference. I have no problem with
losing to a superior player, but if only vastly superior players are
available to play against, most people, including me, will lose
interest.
 
> Be humble.  No matter how "uber" or "1337" you are there's always
> someone better so get used to getting thrashed.

It's got nothing to do with humility, and it's not about whether
there is someone, somewhere that is better than you. It's about the
arena you measure yourself in. When I was in my early 20s, I won a
couple of small Tae Kwon Do tournaments. (ok ok, don't start
laughing. Tae Kwon Do used to get some respect.) It was a lot of
fun, and though I didn't win a lot more tournaments than I won, even
the ones I lost were fun because the competition wasn't so far out
of my league as to crush me like a bug. Having a chance to compete
against the people you are pitted against is all I'm asking for.

For instance, if I show up at my next tournament and am surrounded
by professional fighters who participate in the international big
competitions, it wouldn't be any fun for me, as the outcome for me
would be basically predetermined. I would have no prayer whatsoever
of doing anything but losing, badly. Where's the fun for me in that? 
(especially as physical pain is involved, which I'll grant you isn't
a big part of chess unless you are afflicted with horrid arthritis.)
  
> A good chunk of my "chess" memories from jr. high are getting
> WAXED by a 2400+ ranked Grandmaster.  He would give me his queen
> and both rooks and still work me over.
 
> You know what?  I learned a hell of a lot from him on how to use
> other pieces and the extreme value of positioning.

Sure, I've already said that's a good way to learn. But why are you
learning? So you can win later. People want to win, whether it's
chess or a bunch of society types seeing who has the biggest
engagement ring.
 
> IMHO, American society is far too focused on "fairness, equality,
> and the ability of X to compare to y."  It may sound harsh, but
> hell.  No way I can compare to, say, anyone on the Linux Kernel
> team for programming skill.  I don't think that I could even
> "compare" to most of you for game design.  I'd like to get better
> in both, so I lurk, and learn, and read.  While the golden chalice
> of "everyone is equal" is nice, it's simply not true.  Those who
> have invested the time, energy, effort, willpower and training to
> better themselves should not be held back by those that have
> not...unless they choose to.

Game design isn't, for me at least, a competitive effort. I'm not in
it to 'win' unless you use win in the sense of winning customers. It
doesn't matter to me if every one of you is a better or worse game
designer as long as people are playing my games.
 
> If I ever get the chance to play tennis against Agassi I'm going
> to get my ass kicked.  But you know what?  I'm going to learn a
> hell of a lot even from losing...and I'm going to enjoy every
> minute of it.

Sure. And if you had a stable of 10 opponents to play against, all
of which were as good or better than agassi, how long do you think
you'd want to keep playing? Winning isn't everything, but if you're
competitive, winning sometimes is necessary to maintain interest. I
am competitive, and I have a limited number of hours in my day. I'd
rather spend my time doing something I can occasionally shine at.
 
--matt



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